"Buckeye Minerals Pays $5800/ac, 20% Mahoning county!"

Don't shoot the messenger!  Ohio Land Management rec'd a late afternoon call from one of our neighbors in Mahoning county.  He stated he just signed for $5800 an acre and 20% with Buckeye.

 

All bets are off landowners!  The price of the Utica carbonate shale is now leveling off with the rest of the play.  I just hope many of us have not signed for 3K or 4K.

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Permalink Reply by dr j on November 2, 2011 at 1:41pm

Be confused.  Have you seen the "make up" of the large majority of the landowner groups?  I would say well over 75% of the landowners have less than 20 acres.   Those land owners have very little ability to get leased with an excellent landowner friendly lease without being part of a large group.   In the beginning of this whole thing some of the companies didn't even want to lease parcels unless they were at least 20 acres.  They would then come back and fill in the little parcels when/if needed.  That means that without the landowner group lots of people that have received bonus payments could have been left out entirely unless they were put in a unit eventually.  And then they would have had zero negotiating power to get a good lease- they would have been at the whim of the producer.

 

As for taking a fee - I am willing to bet that all these people have learned a lot in the last year.   They have spent a lot of their time and personal money and while you may not consider them experts, they now have more expertise than most people in this area.   I have done a very small amount of volunteer work in this arena and it consumes your life and takes all your time.  In the meantime I have more than a full time profession.   Most of us do not have the time, desire or means to advocate for own interests individually and are happy there is someone who has been willing to literally put their life on hold to share what they are learning.  Eventually that is going to become valuable and rightfully so.  And while they may have not been experts to start- the mere fact they live here and will probably continue to live here give them different incentives than bringing an "expert" from elsewhere who will leave when it's all said and done.  ( you do know the definition of an expert in many cases - someone from out of town with a briefcase.  Familiarity breeds contempt- and often mistaken contempt).   

 

Let me ask you - how are you going to feel when the next wave signs for more than the 4500 you have signed for?  Because it's happening.  Like you were screwed?  Or like you made the best decision you could with the information you had at the time?  No one can do more.  

I am happy your decision lead you to more money, yet it could have just as easily left you with zero.

 

Permalink Reply by Bill anders on November 2, 2011 at 2:58pm

I will feel like I made my own decision, and got double what a group w/ a ton of leverage negotiated.  The entire process is not too difficult,it's business.  Nobody has a gun to anyone's head to sign here.  The "just as easily left you with zero" statement is getting old as well, now you are truly starting to sound like a Landman.

You want to follow an uneducated man through a forest he has never been through, go for it.  We aren't all sheep.

This is a forum, people are going to have different opinions.  Let's just leave it at that.  

Permalink Reply by dr j on November 2, 2011 at 3:47pm

If the entire process is "not too difficult", then why would you be advocating bringing in experts with more extensive experience from elsewhere?

 You have obviously proven that landowners can negotiate this whole situation adequately alone, without a group or an attorney.  But there are folks who cannot, based on lack of awareness, time issues etc.   Why disparage them?  

You are right, there are all kinds of different opinions.  You are happy with the way your situation has played out so far, as are many of the landowner group members.    

Permalink Reply by Bill anders on November 2, 2011 at 4:08pm
Part of the "process" is consulting w/ educated professionals, you are missing my point.  I do not believe you will ever understand my point, so i am through trying.  Not all of us are sheep, and I personally would never follow a Donkey.
Permalink Reply by dr j on November 2, 2011 at 6:34pm
And you miss mine Bill because for many, they didn't have the time, interest and most particularly the acreage to "go it alone". So without the landowner group there would be no bonus. They would be dealing with all the negatives of the changes going on around them and none of the positives. For them there was strength in numbers. I am done, best of luck to you.
2s72s0k9mm8gdPermalink Reply by 2s72s0k9mm8gd on November 22, 2011 at 10:21am

I understand where you are coming from Bill. This is the day of grouping up for any old reason they can find the excuse for. Independent free thinking is slowly being bred out of us and look at the state of our nation as a result!  Just go to Trumbull County's site and read. There is a "cult like" atmosphere around some of these groups. Hell, one dude wanted to introduce me to his beloved "Mr. Remington" just because I questioned the ethics of running a for profit and non profit land group by the same man at the same time.......? Starting to sound like Nazi Germany in the '30s!

I will never be anyones sheep either!

 

Permalink Reply by Bill anders on November 22, 2011 at 11:28am

Glenn,

Sheep should become OH's state animal.

2s72s0k9mm8gdPermalink Reply by 2s72s0k9mm8gd on November 22, 2011 at 12:23pm

Their slogan could be: "We Love Ewe"

(as long as you agree with everything we say and keep your mouth shut)

Permalink Reply by Ron Eiselstein on March 9, 2013 at 6:59am

Over two years ago this was written, I sounded the alarm that landowners must think this landgroup approach through.  Prior to the $5800, most leased for significantly less with landgroups.  Notice at this time competition came in and kicked the value to where it first should have been.  Over 12 thousand read and learned here, much of it was two late, most left more money on the table than in their pocket. I believe it can be proven that landgroups for profit secured significantly less for thier landowners.

Negligent Misrepresentation?

Permalink Reply by Ken Schwer Sr. on March 9, 2013 at 7:26am

 BM just wasted my time. They signed me, invited me to a meeting. They knew my acreage and that I was surrounded by CHK and a well being drilled close by. I asked them what happens when the landman comes. They said direct him to us and we will take care of it. When the man came with the lease I called them. They cut me loose and said I am on my own. As a signed member of them, they refused to either submit my acreage or do what they agreed to on paper. It seems to me that  they knew CHK wanted me cheap and helped them by dropping me the instant I told them a lease offer came to me, not them. In the end I did ok on my own and am in a proposed unit now. I know others with small acres that were signed by them and got paid. They are not in units at this time.

Permalink Reply by Fang F Fang on March 9, 2013 at 7:30am

Ron,

We live in the "Land of the Sheeple" So many are easily lead to slaughter by the charlatan shepherds of the for profit land groups.

Yes, Negligent Misrepresentation.

Permalink Reply by Samuel J. Orr on March 9, 2013 at 8:29am

Who is / are Buckeye Minerals:?? Very likely they are "flipper" with no capacity to drill and no capacity to pay unless and until they are able to flip the leases to a real O&G company for bonus money in excess of the $5800/ acre promised! They may possibly even extract a percentage royalty over-ride when they flip the leases. Unbelievable Ron that people sign with these types of outfits who tie up the land for a period of time while they attempt to flip the leases that they get gullible landowners to sign. Unbelievable!! If you are going to lease, lease to a real O&G company such as Antero, Anandarko, BP, Rex, Chevron, Gulfport, Shell, or any number of others. Investigate the financials of the O&G company! How many wells have they drilled and where? Go to Yahoo Finance and check the stock price and market capitalization! Google the name of whatever entity proposes to lease your land and see what comes up! Otherwise prepare yourself to be screwed!! When you are screwed, it will not be pleasant!!

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