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"YOUNGSTOWN'S EARTHQUAKES"

First of all thank God, no damage and no one was hurt.  My cat "Jasper" is fine, I was at the store in Poland shaking with my wife and Jasper was half a mile from the epicenter.  Both our historic 1850 store and our 1920 home suffered no apparent damage.  This being said, majority of us in Youngstown are cognizant of the injection well and the studies going on resulting in a moratorium on injection wells that have been punched recently in our backyards.  Youngstown has seen its industrial industry vanish here and suffered the lowest poverty in the nation today.  We do however understand industry and we remember high paying jobs.

 

There is an old tale here that many steel mill fathers and mothers always told their offsprings, look at the black smoke coming from the stacks, that is the picture of money and jobs.  Yes, we knew for every production of man, their is always a counterproduction.  And the poor immigrants who built the great steel mills, understood that benefits outweighed the stark poverty they came from.  Youngstown once boast the most home ownership in the WORLD, come see what is left of the homesteads, wiped out by entitlements and non production. 

 

Yes, we will shut down the injection wells until we find an answer and can evolve with understanding and safety measures.  Of course the experts are here now and American innovation will figure it out.  However, with the fact of freezing to death and energy dependence, our only option without PERPETUAL MOTION is to plow ahead.  Make no mistake us here in Youngstown will harvest the energy underneath us and we will figure out how to handle the byproduct without dumping it into the Mahoning river, and if we conclude that this one injection well is dangerous we will shut this one down but no other. 

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Permalink Reply by Ron Eiselstein on January 1, 2012 at 10:50am

Sorry, "highest poverty in the Nation"

Permalink Reply by Fang on January 1, 2012 at 11:18am

Happy New Year Ron.

I do not think they will shutdown the well permanently. ODNR is having D&L cement the bottom of the hole. Once that is done and tests are complete the well will be re-opened.

Mark

Permalink Reply by Ron Eiselstein on January 1, 2012 at 11:24am

Happy New Year to you too and yours.

Yes, many of us here are beginning to suspect human error.  It has been reported that this well needed to concrete the hole they drilled into the precambrian, of course we are not geologist but one can pipe up here.  You are right, we probably have the technology to ensure the injection well technique.

 

Permalink Reply by Mark A Verner on January 3, 2012 at 12:02pm

Ron,

    I am a brand new member.

    I am very glad Jasper is fine.

    I grew up in the Butler,Pa.,/East Brady,Pa.  area and I attended school in Morgantown,W VA..I am familiar with Youngstown. My sister has lived in Columbus for 30 years. I was surprised to hear about the Earthquake but I guess it can happen anywhere. Yes,thank God is didn't hurt anybody or anything.

 

    Have a good day.  Happy New Year.

 

    Mark Verner

Permalink Reply by dr j on January 1, 2012 at 11:27am

Lots of research to be done, lots of knowledge to be gained in this area.   Since earthquakes/seismic activity happens "where" it happens geologically speaking for a reason, there is much to learn before it can be definitively said that A=B.    But it's important that it is investigated and in the correct way.  

The most maddening part of this whole issue is the (continual) lack of basic understanding of the process.  Calling for a fracking ban based on an injection well possibly causing seismic activity (  only one of hundreds) shows a basic lack of understanding of what "fracking" is and where it is utilized.   If anything this should spur continued innovation in dealing with wastewater in a beneficial manner - and there are many that are doing just that.   

In the meantime I am not concerned NE Ohio will drop off into Lake Erie.   Down here "south of Western Reserve or south of 165 or south of 30"  ( pick your definition of where the hillbilly begins!) we didn't feel a thing.   

Permalink Reply by Bruce Behner on January 1, 2012 at 3:04pm

I am definitly not educated on this but this may be a good thing.  From my understanding as long as these earthquakes are small it's kind of like a pressure relief valve.  Over time if this pressure isnt released it builds, causing greater and more dangerous quakes.  If this is the case and we're just lubricating mother earth to let go of some pent up steam we could use this technology to reduce the number and power of earthquakes in more earthquake prone areas like San Francisco.  In either case, lets all remember to not jump to conclusions, remember information is key!

Permalink Reply by Dan Golaski on January 2, 2012 at 11:02am

Thanks Bruce,  I agree.  I don't know if decades old science class facts are still true today but this is what I remember: 

     California injected water into faults to lubricate them.

     The ohio river prior to the last ice age flowed north.  When the ice melted it flowed south.

     The edge of the ice shelf stoped a few miles south of route 22.  There is a point on the ohio river where you can see where it stopped because the flood plain along the river switches sides.

     2 kinds of earth quakes around here, #1 the plates under us are still bobing up and down from the weight of the ice melting away.  In the scheme of earth time the ice just melted off moments ago.  #2 we are not all on top of the same piece of rock in the tri state area.  Thats why a lot of the faults travel in the same direction.

     The Appalachian mountains were thought to be the tallest range on earth at 40 to 50th feet. Caused from one plate pushing up over top of another.  Would have probably been the most violent sismic movement we could know of.  There is still diferent plates under there.

 

My reply to another thead:   This is the 1811-1812 New Madrid Earthquakes Bicentennial thru February.  http://newmadrid2011.org/    The USGS also has awareness and other events planned.  We should take  notice of the recent quakes because we tend to disregard earthquakes here in the east and mid-west, even though the 1811-1812 events and activity since make these New Madrid faults the most active and violent inside a mostly stable interior landmass

Even if drilling is the final cause of these minor quakes, it is not the reason any more than is Tecumseh's curse or prophesy. The often quoted rule of thumb that a 1 kiloton TNT explosion is roughly equivalent to a magnitude 4 earthquake.  This kind of energy build up from pumping fluid in the ground??????????????Really??? The mid-west just is not headed in the same direction as the east coast.  Earthquakes are not new to Ohio or surrounding states.  A quote from this news article “Northeast Ohio rocked by 11th earthquake linked to Youngstown injection wells By Bob Downing Beacon Journal staff writer Published: January 1, 2012 - 12:00 AM” http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/northeast-ohio-rocked-by-11th-e...    “Geologists have long suspected that injecting liquids into underground rock formations can trigger earthquakes along fault lines. The liquids allow rocks to flow more easily past each other.” I contend Rocks flowing more easily past each other today may keep my grandchildren from harm tomorrow.

So If Fracking and disposal wells cause these minor quakes we should probably get busy drilling, it will take thousands of these small tremors to relieve the energy that builds up to have a “Big One” 6.8 to 8.0.  A quake of these magnitudes today would be very devastating in loss of life and dollars to an almost completely unprepared population as in our region.  One Persons Quake Is Another Persons Tremor.  JMHO

 

Permalink Reply by Mark Allen on January 3, 2012 at 1:01pm

Dan,

great post.  Education is key!   Action, if there is a fire do we rush in with water to put it out?

Do we ask ourself, ''what caused this'' and then make an educated based effort to control it?

Slow down, get all the facts.

It reminds me of high school journalism class;  Who-what-why-when-where,do we even practice this logical way of thinking anymore?

We need to consider all sides. But most of all we need to use our common sense. 

Permalink Reply by Larry P on January 20, 2012 at 10:13am

all sides all facts. I agree. Scary stuff

Permalink Reply by glenn on January 2, 2012 at 5:06pm

The problem with science today is it seems too political. Remember in the '70's scientists warned of an impending Ice Age. Acid Rain came next. Then along came Global Warming. Now we have Tremors...........?

I'm not sure what the Ice Age thing was all about.......maybe a few bad winters in a row......Arab Oil Embargo.........?

Common thread.......HMMMMM.........FOSSIL FUELS !!!!........?????

I'm sorry but "Chicken Little" scientists have greatly damaged the credibility , IMO , of Science as a whole.

Who are we to believe and why ?

Perhaps the bigger question we should ALL be asking is what REALLY motivates these so-called scientists/experts ?

WE MUST NOT CONFUSE HYPOTHESES WITH FACTS!

But , hey , If it is proven that deep injection wells can ease up the threat of big quakes I vote for California to be blessed with ALL of our spent frac fluid!!!! Anything to thave Thanfranthithco ;-)

Permalink Reply by Fang on January 2, 2012 at 7:21pm

Glenn, California would accept the water. They inject water into faults to relieve built up stress and allow small less powerful earthquakes

Perhaps the water pumped into the injection well lubricated a nearby fault and prevented a larger more destructive earthquake.

Mark

Permalink Reply by glenn on January 1, 2012 at 4:03pm

I live in southern Lawrence County PA and felt nothing as well.

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