Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dan on March 6, 2012 at 11:14am

Thanks Michael, 

I missed several hours of discussion but it appears Gale finally found her/his meds.  Would be a great name for a band.  I should not have been so confrontational with Gale but I find her/his elitist attitude way off base.  I don't think she/he had anything personal toward any of us but like an Indian at the pinacle of the cast system, she looks down on the rest of us as all peasants and can't differentiate any difference between a conservative and an occupier because they are all down stream in her/his eyes.  Likewise I appreciate your and others desire to inform, educate and discuss.

Permalink Reply by Michael Householder on March 5, 2012 at 10:10pm

Mark,

I figured you would be smiling as you read this thread.

I have thought for years that we need to scale back the role and funding of the federal gov't to the limits set forth in the Constitution. The problem is, how do we get there without causing a whole bunch of pain in the process? I like the ideas you present here.

What little I know of the Texas plan, I like it, but I agree with Jeff. It would be nice to see a study (or more, these types of things tend to get multiple conflicting studies) detailing the effects of the Texas plan. The Texas economy has been booming in comparison to the rest of the country. How much of that is due to tax policy? How much would have happened anyway?

Michael

Permalink Reply by Michael Householder on March 5, 2012 at 11:06pm

Mark,

I've been told that I study/think things to death, so you are probably right. I see your point about having the industry pay for their own oversight and infrastructure; the banking industry has done this for years (although some would argue the process failed). I guess what I'm looking for is more information on the whole issue of taxes in Texas, not just specific to O&G development. In other words, if we eliminate the state income tax as part of the deal for increasing the severence tax, will we see other tax increases such as sales tax, etc. The government is very good at making enormous mistakes. Before we switch, I'd like to be sure there won't be any hidden surprises.

Hope this helps clarify my concern. Thanks for making me think.

Michael

Permalink Reply by Dan on March 6, 2012 at 10:40am

Mark, 

You should look at Alaska also.  Instead of income tax, residents got a check from the State.  Inflation was high even for an island like State.  Looked great on paper and the residents loved it.  I was visiting in Anchorage when oil dropped to $12.50 bbl. and the news came that the State lost their revenue source and the checks stopped to the residents and they still had prices tripple ours on most everything.  Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde on March 5, 2012 at 10:02pm

Lets look at this;

Reply by gale yesterday

So Billy the rich don't eat or pay freight charges on their proucts or real estate taxes on their homes and ranches?  Give me a freaking break.  You’re trying rather poorly to play the class warfare game.  What are you an occupy wall street supporter of Obama's?

Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde yesterday

Delete

gale Might I say that your tone is rather hostile?  Hidden taxes called fines, Big Bad Tobacco gets fined and cigarette prices goes up to pay the fine that the government gets that to me is a hidden tax with the poor paying that hidden tax called a fine. EPA fines the power company and we see the AEP trying to increase rates. 

 Anytime anyone sets a price in order to make a profit and are operating on a budget and the cost to make that product, to market the product, comply with added regulation they increase the cost of the product, fairly simple.

  In case you do not know it transportation trucking has a fuel surcharge that is added to the cost of the freight that the consumer pays for. 

  I did not say the rich does not pay taxes they do however enjoy the capability of reducing the taxes they do pay by shifting the tax to the lower class.

  I am far from a occupier! But I will say I believe a flat tax on income with no deductions with no hidden taxes, excise taxes, user fees as a form of tax I would enjoy seeing. It makes no sense to me to see one work overtime at time and a half and end up with less per hour than straight pay. 

 Buy the way I am PUBLIC ENEMY N0 1. I am a Nam Vet, I own guns and Sarah Palin autographed my Vet hat!  I request you back off.

  First off you attacked me in you rant.  Now  anyone with half a brain  would see I was far from being a supporter of the occupiers or Obuma!  In reference to "Buy the way I am PUBLIC ENEMY N0 1. I am a Nam Vet, I own guns and Sarah Palin autographed my Vet hat!" Please see http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/16/napolitano-apologizes-of...""To the extent veterans read it as an accusation ... an apology is owed," she said during an on-air interview on FOX News Thursday, a day after veterans' groups and members of Congress blasted her for the report, which they said libeled members of the armed forces."

That was disproving your your rant! As far as " I request you back off" I was trying to be politically correct but since that did not cross your mind maybe plain old common farm language might do " I request you shut up" THERE! 

Permalink Reply by Michael Householder on March 5, 2012 at 11:15pm

I appreciate the support Jeff. Thank you.

It is too bad. When he behaved, he did post some interesting stuff.

Michael

Permalink Reply by Michael Householder on March 5, 2012 at 11:38pm

Gale,

Now we are getting somewhere. Thank you for toning it down. This is what I was looking for all along.

What we have here is a classic case of intention vs perception. Did Billy intend his comment to be a threat? You perceived it as a threat. I perceived it as his evidence to rebut your classifying him as an occupier. Only Billy knows for certain.

Your insistance that Billy intended a threat put that meaning into play when you used nearly the same phrase against me. I made comments in an effort to help you see that. I honestly never thought I was in any danger.

I, for one, do not necessarily want you banned from this site. I've read many of your posts and for the most part, I feel you bring some value to the conversation. I just expect civil discourse and do not appreciate the type of attacks you made. Please note that I never responded in kind.

As far as our supposed disagreement about who pays more in taxes, I stopped way short of my thoughts on the issue because it was apparent to me that anything I said would be lambasted. I now hope this is not the case, and would be glad to continue the conversation if you so choose.

Michael

Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde on March 5, 2012 at 10:49pm

QUESTION HERE since it got lost in the melee 

Question here. If a severance tax is supposed to be put upon a landowner by the state or county but is paid by the oil producer wouldn't the land owner have to pay a income tax upon that amount as a paid benefit?

Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde on March 5, 2012 at 10:57pm

  Mark I am trying to ascertain if a O&G pays all of the severance tax although a land owner might be responsible for paying a share if that shared amount paid by the O&G would be taxable as income? 

Permalink Reply by Michael Householder on March 5, 2012 at 11:13pm

Billy,

My understanding is yes, the landowner would be responsible for paying income tax on the taxes paid by the O&G company. The same would also be true in regards to attorney fees paid by the O&G on the landowners behalf. I am not a CPA, so if anyone has contrary info, please post it.

The good news is, paying income tax on the O&G's payment of the severance is substantially less than actually paying the severance tax yourself.

Michael

Permalink Reply by Michael Householder on March 6, 2012 at 10:22pm

Gale,
I was thinking about federal income tax in my response. The elimination of the state income tax would be a nice benefit if this plan flies, however.
Michael

Permalink Reply by Private KeepOut on March 6, 2012 at 12:56pm

Gov. Kasich's Energy Policy Targets Fracking

Monday, 05 Mar 2012 04:38 AM

By Sandy Fitzgerald

• Ohio’s new energy policy will target natural gas and oil drillers in an attempt to make sure the state gets its fair share of what is expected to be a $5 billion-per-year industry. Gov. John Kasich is scheduled to unveil his energy policy next week, reports the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

 

The new plan, which will combine new taxes, fees and regulations, will be a compromise between Ohio collecting from the industry while avoiding rates that aren’t competitive with neighboring states.

 

Kasich’s proposal will include new severance taxes on oil, natural, and wet gases drawn through horizontal fracking. The proposed policy will also likely include an impact fee, which will help pay to repair damages to Ohio’s rural and small town roads from heavy trucks and equipment.

 

Neighboring Pennsylvania and West Virginia are already charging the industry taxes and fees. Pennsylvania has a locally enforced impact tax, but doesn’t charge for severance. Meanwhile West Virginia charges both fees.

 

Terry Fleming, executive director of the Ohio Petroleum Council, said the state can do well without the additional fees and taxes. He noted Ohio already collects about $14 million from the industry, and that rate could jump to more than $1 billion as more drills are built.

 

However, Ohio stands to gain much more by raising the fee: Boosting the severance tax to 5 percent, which would match rates in Michigan and West Virginia, could raise $1.7 billion in new revenue over the next decade, according to a report from the think tank Innovation Ohio. If the tax is raised to 7.5 percent, Ohio stands to gain $2.5 billion.

 

Innovation Ohio spokesman Dale Butland said it is not likely the industry would be scared away by new taxes and fees.

 

“You want to drill in shale, you have to go where the shale is, and Ohio has it,” said Butland. “It’s completely implausible that these companies are going to leave billions of dollars in profits on the table if they are asked to pay the same tax rates that they already pay in Texas."

Read more on Newsmax.com: Gov. Kasich's Energy Policy Targets Fracking 
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

http://www.newsmax.com/US/energy-fracking-policy-ohio/2012/03/05/id...

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