Gas doesn't migrate through shale, thats why they have to frack it in the first place. They frack the bottom 500', yet there is still another 6000-7000' of impermeable unfracked rock above it. Gas and liquids can not travel through this unfracked rock. So, how do you respond to that? How can you explain these liquids are getting into these water supplies from the subsurface? I'm guessing you're response will be along the lines of "I don't know how it happens but it does". The truth is, these gasses and liquids dont migrate upwards into the water supply. Your side needs to get it's story straight so people can at least debate with you. Is it coming from surface contamination? Or subsurface contimination? Explain what you think is actually happening so we can understand what you are complaining about. Right now it is just a scatterbrained shotgun approach to bash the process. So, explain to me where the root of the problem is which is leading to the "contamination". This response should be interesting - full of stories of the problems but no actual link to the specific problem other than "fracking is bad".
You won't be missed on this site. Please leave as you've said you would do for the past 3 months it looks like. I've read through your posts and they are all fairly amusing. I've come across some ridiculous greenies in my lifetime, but you are by far the least educated and most biased.
The fact that your well is polluted is very unfortunate and I am sorry for you. However, there is no proof that it was caused by fracking. The State has said that the well casing was not installed properly and gas migrated to the wells. I think that the culprit (Cabot) should be required to somehow provide remediation for all affected property owners.
By the same token, for you to fight against my rights to have drilling done on my land in a manner that I feel is safe is simply not right. In fact, it is unamerican.
1) You will never hear/see me defending Dick Cheney.
2)Hydrofracking was never covered by The Clean Water Act. To my way of thinking that means it was never exempted.
3) I never said that known carcinogens were not used in fracking.
4) The fact that we use them in the home (and often dump them down the drain) is not a moot point. It points out that we personally handle known carcinogens, yet complain about others doing it.
5) The chemicals going into and coming out of the ground are dangerous and need to be regulated, monitored, and perhaps banned if/when it is shown that they cause a problem. Unfounded fear does not equal proof.
Dear Carolyn, I am impressed with your voice and your perspective. You speak from the heart, with passion and eloquence. Around the broad topic of drilling and drilling techniques,there is too much hype, and not nearly enough straight talk. You are helping to balance the scale some. Thank you for that.
Read the Huffington post today, there is a piece on Dimock. I am not disregarding anyone's experience, I am telling you and all the readers what is happening three miles down the road from my property. Plain and simple: the facts. And no one has offered any solution to environmental damage that has already occurred in less than one year. To tell me that Cabot has problems does not reassure me. I bought that land to preserve some Pennsylvania countryside and I see it being ruined by greedy, short sighted speculators. Sorry, that makes me really angry. I have no personal agenda against Cabot but I DO have an issue with poisoned well, rivers, seismic trucks that ruin my Memorial Day holiday with their depth charges outside my front door. Those wells are not going to recover, not now or ever. I am thinking that this website is owned by Cabot because of the complete lack of discussion of environmental issues are which obviously there are many. To the leasers I say go ahead and lease it, but when you can;t drink the water or breathe the air, or when you have twenty wells on your property, don;t complain. Talk to Victoria Spitzer, the retired teacher out there in Dimock. I have no doubt she rues the day she leased her land to Cabot.
Carolyn -- I spent years working for the DEP -- I don't have to call them. I don't deny Cabot has problems -- there are companies like that in any industry -- just ask the bankers and investment firms. But you cannot paint every company in the industry with that brush. Not only is it not fair, its not accurrate. Many strive to be responsible beacuse its right and beacus not being so is quite expensive in this play, as Cabot is quickly learning. I've lived in Southwestern Pennsylvania my entire life, surrounded by the gas industry. When I worked at DEP Oil and Gas was the quietest bureau within the agency from a public affairs stand point, yet conventional wells were being drilled all around -- and being fraced. Why do you disregard the experience and understanding of people who have worked with oil and gas for years? DEP can tell you lots of other things that would show you that Cabot is in fact an exception to the compliance records of most drillers.
You are correct about that -- but what I'm saying is that natural gas in drinking water is not specific to drilling. These natural gas/methane escapes happen all the time -- when water wells are drilling, when foundations fo new housing are drilled, when septic systems are put in, basically anytime you penetrate a shallow formation with gsa in it. I know water well drillers who died from this beacuse clients did not properly disconnet their old wells before he drilled.
This is different than frac fluid contamination. Its much more difficult for liquid to escape than gas, beacause its heavier. Escaping gas does not carry liquid with it. Also, important to qualify between frac fluid and flow back water -- they are not the same. Water reacts with naturall occurring elements in the formation like salts and metals, and carries them out during flow back. Its not the same as what was pumped in.
So -- when I say that there has not been (frac fluid) contamination of a drinking water supply caused by hydraulic fracing in 60 years, I am correct.
Yes there was a spill -- but you have to qualify. What I said is no contamination of a drinking water supply. (Wyoming has not been proven, regardless of what some local EPA rep said in a meeting) Surface spills happen in many industries everyday with no contamination to drinking water.
Yes Cabot is supplying water --beacuse its under obligation by the law to do so. Thats done in spill cases all the time as a precaution -- its no admission that there is drinking water contamination. These kinds of complaints are not "documented" until a government agency studies and says, "yes its beacuse of this, or no it isn't." Someone saying its so doesn't make it so -- the study part is to protect everyone involved -- the citizen from being run over by big industry and big industry from being taken advantage of by saavy citizens who know how to manipulate the system.
Carolyn -- I certainly hope you choose to stay, voice your concerns and hear out those of us who may (or may not) disagree with you. I think your contributions here are valuable, and keep those of us who feel more comfortable with this process grounded. Its important to realize that concerns exist and that we need to think about things that may seem apparent to those of us in industry, but are not so intuitive to others who are not. The energy thats down in the Marcellus is going to be important as we move to cleaner technology (of which natural gas is often considered part of). Everyone needs to be part of that debate.
Would I put a well on my land? Absolutely. I have been around this business long enough, I would put a well in my backyard tomorrow, and I hope the company that paid me for my lease will drill a well on it - the money you make is in the royalties, not the lease bonus. There have been reports of landowners getting royalty checks of $30,000 a month. Do you even know what a royalty check is??? Now, I understand when you say, money isn't everything. But the "sacrifices" you make to create financial security for your childrens future are absolutely minimal compared to the monthly checks for the next 25 years of the life of the well. After the 6 week drilling and completing process, the land is completely recovered and all that is left is a wellhead, and sometimes a storage tank. Would I put a storage tank in my woods in order for my country to have energy and be sure that my kids will be able to go to any college they want? Yes. That is a very easy decision for me, and it blows my mind you would rather have no drilling. You say it's chump change to a company? First of all, it's not, but that's besides the point, and to be honest that reasoning doesnt even make sense - which falls in line with your other thoughts. If Bill Gates offers 10 million dollars for my home, I'm not going to be disguisted and say "thats chump change for you Bill, you must be evil and trying to take advantage of me", I'm going to say "wow, thats 10 million dollars". You're reasoning and logic are completely flawed. You are sitting atop a treasure which is not only beneficial for you (although you disagree), but it is even more important for our country. If everybody had your point of view, our country would be even more dependant on foreign oil, flooding even more money into the corrupt countries of the middle east and their dirty oil. Every cubic foot of gas we don't get from America, we have to replace it with oil from OPEC in the middle east since we dont have the alternatives set up, YET. But, considering you don't understand the energy status of America, I'm guessing that international concept may be too much for you as well. I don't wish poorly on anybody, but you are missing the boat. Before you know it, all the land around you will have been drilled, and these companies will have drained all of the natural gas under your land - meaning you're too late to get back in it because your mineral rights will now be useless since all the gas is gone. You'll be in the middle of beautiful residential developements because of all of the increased income around you, while you'll be sitting there wondering how you could be so blinded by some media politics saying natural gas drilling is bad - completely missing the boat on this chance of a lifetime. I don't wish this upon you, but I have a strong inclination this is will be ultimate outcome 5-10 years down the road. I've seen it before, and I garantee it will happen in the Marcellus to landowners like you. So, Carolyn, back to your original question: Would I put a gas well on my property? Yes. In a heartbeat. Because I am educated about the subject, I have a passion for becoming energy independant, I have a desire to switch to cleaner burning fuels for America, I have been around thousands of wells in my life - including completed wells - and I know the safety and willingness of these companies to please the landowners. I hope you don't miss the boat, I know I'm on board.
Hate to jump into this arguement -- just wanted to share something. Carolyn, if Cabot is offering you $2,700/acre today, thats not chump change. No one and I mean no one, can afford to offer those numbers these days. Most drilling companies are pushing on despite low natural gas prices, but schedules have been cut and the number of wells on the slate for this year has gone down. Drilling companies are not all made of big pockets. To drill just one Marcellus well takes millions of dollars -- three times what it takes to drill conventionally. The economics have to work or we can't actually afford to do this. Thats why no one ever did before. Drilling companies have to answer to someone -- their investors.
And I asked you that question: "Would you pull the plug on oil and gas drilling tomorrow?" to prove a point. This is not an option. Until we have the technology to replace oil and natural gas, we can not get rid of it. For example, if I'm on a deserted island with just 200 cans of Crisco to eat, I cant just say "this is extremely unhealthy, we need to cultivate the land and grow vegetables". The problem is, if the land isnt prepped, and the vegetables arent ready to be eaten, we cant get off the fatty Crisco. It's the same way with our energy. You preach that oil and gas drilling is ruining our land.. Now, it's not exactly comparable to our cans of Crisco on that deserted island because the industry has made us the powerful country that we are today, but we all do acknowledge it isnt going to last forever, and it is damaging our atmosphere (surprising, I bet to you, I do believe climate change is human induced). You're not the only one to believe this, yet you preach to everybody like you are. Bottom line: we cant just quit fossil fuels cold turkey. We can't get off it until the land is cultivated for a healthier energy source. You are so opposed to oil and gas companies, but these are the companies that are cultivating our land to convert to renewable energy. You should be praising the efforts they are making while they simultaneously keep our energy needs at bay, instead of irrationally bashing them as if they havent provided you and your family with the energy you use. I keep coming back to this, but I dont think you understand the benefits of natural gas over oil or coal. Assuming you are somewhat passionate about this issue, I'll let you delve into that research on your own. If you are concerned not with how it burns, but with the effects of drilling (which I think you are) then your research should be focused on the no footprint policy when the drilling is complete - it really should be the least of your concerns. Back to our deserted island metaphor, natural gas are the berries we could eat as we transition from the fatty Crisco (oil and coal) to our healthy garden (renewable energy). I'm sorry for the childish example, but it is just used to show that we need to cultivate our land BEFORE we throw out fossil fuels. Energy companies are leading that effort, yet because they keep our energy needs fulfilled with natural gas in the meantime, you are opposed to them. I am a geologist, and a Pennsylvania landowner. I have not only studied the Earth my entire life, but I live here too, as do my children. So, you can take my thoughts as a concerned citizen just like you. I hope you become informed so you can truly understand how much of a blessing these natural gas deposits are in our transition to clean, renewable energy.
I'm not saying you are an evil demon woman. Im sure you are actually a very intelligent nice woman. However, you are stepping into an arena you know nothing about. It's like me coming into a cooking chat room and arguing with you about the best ways to make french cuisine. I know a little bit, but the person I'd be arguing with (you - a seasoned chef) would destroy me. Really thats how it is with you and arguing about natural gas drilling. Im not criticizing you for not knowing about oil and gas, because not many people do (which is unfortunate considering it is the biggest industry in the world). I'm criticizing you because you think you have some sort of knowledge that we dont. In reality, you know very little about this industry. Other than you're single bad experience, you know nothing. Forth Worth? You want me to read up on it? Listen, your telling a person who's spent 25 years in the industry to read about Fort Worth. That's like me telling you to try oregano, its a spice. I've lived in Forth Worth for a few years, and that economy is booming because of the thousands of jobs created, local taxes from royalties, etc. So yes, I know about Fort Worth - its great. But im sure you read about the 1 well out of thousands that polluted a few persons water. The losses are worth the gains. Thats it. Bottom line is you do have the right to speak your mind, but if there is nothing on your mind but biased garbage from an extremely rare personal experience, then you should really reconsider your thoughts. Or we can just go back and forth, which I'm sure is getting both of us nowhere. I sincerely hope everything clears up around your house, nobody should have to endure that for too long. I'm sure everything will return to normal soon, only after it cleans up, there will be clean natural gas being provided to you, your community, and america. I think the temporary inconvenience is worth that, but apparently you disagree. Get educated about the no footprint policies of these companies, and the environmental standards of these companies in general. You're focusing on one outlier in the entire state of Pennsylvania.
I'm sorry to hear that you live near that unfortunate accident. However, I am not sorry to hear that your neighbors have joined in the effort to tap into a domestic energy source which burns 99% cleaner than coal (get educated on that. PLEASE). You have to understand that those kind of accidents are extremely uncommon. You have to deal with it, which is unfortunate, but you now have a completely biased view. Forgive me for a bad example, but if a loved one dies on a plane crash, it does not mean that planes are unsafe, and should be banned. That is basically how ridiculous your comments are, because those types of drilling accidents are very rare. You keep bringing up the money thing... that companies will do anything to make money. Listen Carolyn, these AMERICAN companies are freeing us from the dependance on foreign oil. They provide billions of tax dollars, as well as employ hundreds of thousands of people. The scientists of these companies are the most educated people (arguably more educated than NASA) in the world, and have sacrificed years of their lives to gain the knowledge to understand how to provide our COUNTRTY with energy. You're comments are just completely anti-american. You say you want renewable energy like you're the only one. Im deep in the oil and gas business, but I would love renewable energy as well. We all do carolyn. Tell me, who is leading the way to achieving that goal? Which companies are investing billions of dollars to get that set up? I'll tell you, the large ENERGY companies. Exxon, Chevron, BP, Shell, Conoco... all of them have contributed billions of research dollars out of their own pockets.
Answer me this question Carolyn:
If you had a choice to end drilling for fossil fuels in America tomorrow, would you do it?
I dont want to speak for you, but from your comments, it seems as though you would pull the plug tomorrow. Is that correct?
Can you please change your kind of "shaler" that you are? You obviously are not informed whatsoever. You have no personal experience in the industry and how it actually works. You are a chef. Great profession, but has absolutely nothing to do with this business. You obviously had a predisposition concerning natural gas exploration before you read your first article, which by the looks of it seems to be the only literature you've every read about this industry. You talk about frac chemicals, air pollution, etc., but you have absolutely zero clue about the actual sophistication of the science behing this industry. The technology we use to safely extract natural gas exceeds the technology used to put a man on the moon. I've spent 25 years in this business for multiple companies. Every single company has their TOP priority: Safety first. Your "knowledge" is based on extreme cases plucked from the rare mishaps from around the country. I urge you to actually look into how safe natural gas drilling is. The only people you will sway with your uninformed comments are the people as unknowledgable as you. Because the majority of people dont understand anything about the industry (like you), they believe anything that agrees with their predisposed views. This is not an insult on these people because they have not been around this industry until now, but the difference between them, and you, is that theyre not making grossly false claims like they actually know the business. Get educated about the science before you make comments. In the eyes of educated people it is laughable, but in the eyes of newcomers your incorrect comments can be influencial. Feel free to ask me anything you're uncertain about (basically everything oil and gas related and the environment) because I would like to point you in the right direction - the unbiased scientific facts. This is a chance for America to be less dependent on foreign oil, while tapping into a resource that burns 99% cleaner than coal (you said in one of your posts they burn the same.... wow). You obviously want renewable energy, as do I. Natural gas is the link from oil dependence, to renewable energy. You can't just make that leap without a clean burning transition. If you dont understand that, then your knowledge is even more limited than your showing on these posts. You're opposing one of the greatest resources in America's history. I hope someday you and others will become informed so that America can prosper again as the greatest country in the world.
What makes this site so great? Well, I think it's the fact that, quite frankly, we all have a lot at stake in this thing they call shale. But beyond that, this site is made up of individuals who have worked hard for that little yard we call home. Or, that farm on which blood, sweat and tears have fallen.[ Read More ]