Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Carol on November 4, 2011 at 2:26am

Homer is right - they will lease around small parcels of land.  They may not get all of the gas from that land, but that landowner may never get leased by another company if there is a unit all around them.  If I had 19 acres and everyone around me was leased, I'd be leasing.  The fracking can go further than expected as Homer mentions below. 

Permalink Reply by Patrick on October 31, 2011 at 1:05pm

Homer,

 

Thanks a bunch for responding. Have you heard reports of this happening? I know it had to be hard to really tell how the companies are drilling, but if they get caught doing that, wouldn't they get in big trouble? Does the government inspect at all?

Permalink Reply by 0jw0dsu4txfuv on October 31, 2011 at 1:09pm

They can't tell how far from the orginal well bore the gas is produced. Sad fact.

Permalink Reply by Jonathan A Jones on November 2, 2011 at 4:33pm

Patrick,

The number that geologists and mining engineers throw around is 330 feet.  That means that a horizontal well will draw gas 330 feet in all directions.  I have no idea where this number comes from.  In most states there is a 500 foot setback from an unleased property line.  I believe this holds true for PA (someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong).  But really, do you have the means to actually go down and check this?  

Yes - companies would be in BIG trouble.  They could lose the entire well.  They must file their drill plan with the DEP (these are available to the public for a fee) but I'll ask the above question again:  Who is going to check them?  I'm not asking this question to stir up trouble or to insinuate that the gas companies are dishonest.  I am simply throwing out the question because that's the crux of the issue.  

Good luck!

Permalink Reply by Utica Shale on November 3, 2011 at 5:28am

Jonathan,

 "... But really, do you have the means to actually go down and check this? ... "

 

 Yes, I think do. They can "go down and check this" by drilling core samples at farther and farther distances from the Horizontal Production Pipe until they see no more FRAC Fluid or Proppant. This will give the Driller a very good estimate of how far they have actually frac'd the shale and how well the proppant is holding the fractures open at that particular drilling site. Given similar geology they could then extrapolate previous results to new drilling locations.

Permalink Reply by Carol on November 4, 2011 at 2:31am

Patrick - good question, who is going to check them? No one. And, how would they absolutely be able to prove it. 

Someone in my area lost production from a vertical marcellus well when a horizontal was being drilled THOUSANDS of feet away.  I don't think this was just a coincidence.  The gas company is confident that their new horizontal well drained the gas from the vertical well.  I think this shows that the gas can travel quite a distance.

Permalink Reply by Johhny Jacobs on November 8, 2011 at 10:17am

Wrong. People that are not involved in units will not have the gas 'stolen' from underneath them. Fracking, is similar to throwing a rock and cracking a windshield, the parts that aren't shattered (read: fracked) won't produce. There is not large caverns of gas pockets; there are however, an abundance of microscopic gas molecules trapped in Shale formations that can be produced when force-ably extracted. 

Permalink Reply by George Brown on October 31, 2011 at 3:45pm

I'm probably just north of you in Irwin Township, Venango County.  I can tell you that I and several others in the area are working with Jason from Shell, who authored the letter shown in your first attachment.  You will ultimately have to do what makes sense for you and your financial situation.

I was approached by a landman about 2 years ago.  He was offering $1500 per acre and 15% royalty at the time.  I decided to pass on his offer, only to see the offers dry up for more than a year.  I recently contacted Shell (Jason) and received an offer of $3000/18% from him.  Maybe I could hold out for more, but I'm feeling pretty good about this offer.  I can tell you that Jason, in my opinion, is a decent guy.  But always remember, the landmen don't work for you.  They are trying to broker an agreement between you and the gas company.  Ultimately, they need to get the best deal they can for their employer, which is not you, the landowner.  On the other hand, they won't do themselves any favors by taking advantage of someone like you who owns 19 acres.  The bad publicity isn't worth the paltry sum they would save by cheating you out of $500 or $1000 per acre.

If you want more information about my experience, friend me and send me a message.  We are all here to help each other.  This site helps to educate all of us so we can make better and informed decisions.

Permalink Reply by ShaleAdvice (Steven C. Townsend) on November 1, 2011 at 12:18am

When was that offer?  I have negotiated more per acre in your area.

Permalink Reply by George Brown on November 3, 2011 at 2:20pm

It's currently on the table...

Permalink Reply by Johhny Jacobs on November 8, 2011 at 10:03am

Is there any area you haven't negotiated more per acre? The moon?

Permalink Reply by Lana Boyer on November 2, 2011 at 2:22pm

I know there is a lot of information out there that helps you make a better decision today than 5 years ago.  Listen to others and educate your self.   Jason may be a nice guy, but Shell does not have the Land Owners best interest in mind.  I have property in Lawrence County and am near one of the first wells.  Over 300 landowners signed leases that were $3. and acres in 2005 and 2006.   Notary fraud was just one issue that is being investigated on these leases.  There are others.  The practice continues!   One farmer told me that he kicked the land man off his land 4 times.  When he came back the last time he told him to do it for his country, that we needed gas.   He thought he should since he did not serve in the military.  He gave away his rights for $3. an acre because the land man pressured him to do it.  He is close to 90 years old.   Some of the other farmers I talked to, can't hear well,  and don't understand how anyone could of lied to them and got away with this.  They worked all there life for the land and Shell is aware of how it was acquired.  I would love to see Shell Oil step up to the plate and take care of the people that worked for the land they are profiting from.  The bottom line is the people lacked knowledge on a topic that was unfamiliar to them and they trusted the land man as an honest person giving honest advice.  What a big mistake!  Check out shaleadvice.com  they are working for us.

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