Yes he is obtuse, yes he speaks his mind, yes he can be an A%$hole, but he is the landowner's $%#&^*$.

He speaks for us.

I have followed Fang's post from when he first appeared, who is he, it really doesn't matter to me because he is never personal and he debates obviously with facts and knowledge.  What I know about him from this site is he is an old timer landman from the days of the first clinton wells.  He is a veteran of urban unitization which is the toughest part of the well unit development.  He is very experienced in my book.


Now many here question his agenda when they no longer can debate.  Let me tell you what I see as his Agenda, it is the same as mind and the same as landowners and the same as professional people in this trade.  We and Fang are outraged how those who never understood a clinton well royalty check, never managed real estate, those who's knowledge of a lease was an apartment lease............those who jumped up and preached to the masses who owned land that they could represent them in this once in a life time gold rush.   Yes we have an agenda to see justice for fellow landowners and the RETURN of the professionals in the continuation of this energy development.  The banishing of those who unjustly enriched themselves at the expense of the landowner, big or small.


Fang's Agenda IMHO is the same as Jack Straw, Marcus, Townsend, Brink, The oil patch man, all of us who post and learn here everyday, just local community folk.

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Are these fractures only blown sideways , or are they also directed radially from the bore? I understand the target layer of shale may not be thick enough to require a 1000 foot diameter "cylindrical" fracturing but would adjoining strata also contain enough product to make this feasable? Or can the explosive be controlled to the extent that the more vertical charges are reduced to reach only the upper and lower limits of that particular layer of shale?


Our lease states verticals oil wells above the Onondaga Horizon can only hold 80 acres and 160 if it is below. A vertical gas well can hold 100 acres above the Onondaga and 320 below. If the well is a Horizontal whether gas or oil the max size of the unit is determined by this formula: 100 acres + .02755 x A, A being the length of the lateral. This is for each hole on a drill pad. Using this formula and Jacks example I come up with a single horizontal can only hold 245.46 acres. Maybe the 100 acres is to generous. So to increase the unit size they have to come back for a release correct?  

The way I conceptualize the situation is a bit like a "bottle brush".

Think of the fractures as being the bristles on a well worn, bent up and squished bottle brush.

The fractures wide near the center of the brush, thinning as you go progressively from that center.

In fracing, the fractures preferentially follow existing jointing (ancient tectonically induced fractures) in the shale. Once fraced, I expect most of the fractures to remain within the shale; some fractures extending a short distance into (non-productive rocks above and below the shale).

I see it as kind of a rounded version of  <> .

But, others might see it otherwise; until someone runs me into the hole (where I can see it close up), I will stick with my concept.




Those were my rough guesses 2 or 3 years ago.  I think I wrote that in here about then.  I actually had a top lease with restrictions of no more than 100 or 150 acres for a single vertical well and no more than 300 acres for a horizontal if I remember correctly.  Of course my land was HBP on a single vertical bore without fracking by the first leasing company and the top lease could not take effect.  I am well into my second 5 years of lease now and absolutely nothing is happening with the vertical wells in the area.  It is all dry gas and may not be worth pursueing further for decades.  I may be dead and gone by then.  I wonder how many other people out there are in the same boat.  Quite a few I bet.

i cannot prove, and so will not attempt to defend this statement, but my current understanding based on numerous enlightened discussions is that, although initial expectations were for frac's to extend as far as 500 feet as you've said, the reality is that most are only making it out to 250-275 feet in the marcellus in northeast pa at least.

whereas initially, 3000 foot wide units were planned to contain 6 wells, 3 north and 3 south at 1000 foot spacing, currently additional infill wells are planned at 500 foot spacing.

only time will tell i suppose.


RE: "although initial expectations were for frac's to extend as far as 500 feet as you've said, the reality is that most are only making it out to 250-275 feet in the marcellus in northeast pa at least."

I do not disagree. I noted that 500' was being "generous". I too feel that most fracs do not extend out that far ... 350' might be more representative ... and as you state 250-275' may end up more appropriate for some (many?) areas.




 On another Gas site, I just found  this posting about how some Companies are experimenting with closer bores and the like.  Nice to hear about such stuff.  Thanks.,19734.msg248167...


that site used to be a huge resource in its' day. unfortunately now, due to decisions made at the behest of whiners and anti gas development patsies, it is but a mere shell of its' former self.

but there are some extremely knowledgable posters there still, though they too are frustrated with the way the site has gone downhill of late.

donegal is among the best.

i think im gonna let him know theres a place where we can talk more freely and openly without fear of offending those of a somewhat sensitive nature, here in this forum.


Fang:  Just admit it.  We're old timers! This sad fact becomes glaringly apparent when reading the retirement notices of state officials we did business with for years.

I totally agree. This is great!

I have a strong feeling FFF is a 30 year old O&G landman... ;-)

that should get a rise.


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