Seismic testing in Hookstown... HELP ?

We had a man  come to our farm  today and wanted us to sign papers to let them do Seismic testing on our farm.  The mans name was Mike Allstead from SEITEL, out of Monaca, PA. He offered us $5.00 per acre on our 76 acre farm. They want to dig 40 3 inch round holes , 30 ft. deep, put blasting powder in the holes . ( My Husband talked to the man, I was not here)  He told the man he needs to talk with me. I am to call him and set up a time after the Holidays to sign the papers. The man needs to come back and draw where the buildings and ponds are, on our property.  Has anyone else been aproached by this  company ? ANY information would be appreciated ! Not sure what to do ? Confused..... Many Thanks in advance for your information !

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Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 9:13pm

I'm actually a UAE plant, tasked with poking holes in your arguments all for the sake of killing time and filling up the Internet in the goal of promoting that movie... WORSE... I'm doing all of this from an offshore location... "City Boy"... I ain't even a 'merican... I'm a PETA sponsored and UAE paid fractivist!  So, c'mon... cut loose and let me have it... call me all sorts of names... make remarks about my intelligence... accuse me of living in a city... that will certainly make you look scholarly. :-)

Or you could just tend to the holes in your own argument.  Show me how O&G operations are CLEANING UP the groundwater in PA.  There must be a web site out there full of dumb filthy farmers who were happily drinking their own animals' manure until Chesapeake came along and showed them the light...boy howdy and hallelujah!

Why... I bet that their newly cleaned up groundwater has given them added IQ points, a bigger bounce in their step and made their cabbage grow to 25 pounds!  Just point me toward it so I can send them a thank-you check for cleaning up all that ground water in PA.

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 4, 2013 at 10:12pm

kbrooks, you stated: "Farmers already test their wells annually or at least bi-annually.."

Lets see, should I believe YOU, or should I believe the PennState Agricultural Analyltical Service Lab?

"Why should you test your drinking water? There are over 1 million private wells in Pennsylvania serving 3.5 million people in rural areas. Approximately 20,000 new wells are drilled each year. About half of the private water wells that have been tested in the state have at least one water quality problem. Yet, despite the importance of testing your water, only half of Pennsylvania wells have ever been tested".

 

http://www.aasl.psu.edu/Water_drinking_main.html

 

I think that I'll trust the Lab at Penn State.

Your track record of getting the facts straight are not too good.

In fact, you have not gotten a single thing right!

 

"Farmers already test their wells annually or at least bi-annually..", what a joke. They should, but they do not.

 

RE: "I'm actually a UAE plant, tasked with poking holes in your arguments"

I doubt that, a UAE plant would be intelligent enough to not get caught up in so many false statements. The UAE would do better than send out a City Boy from the Pittsbugh suburbs.

I see that you have given up on attempting to justify your statements.

 

RE: " I ain't even a 'merican"

I could and should have guessed that; most Americans are interested in doing what is right for America (such as developing Clean, Green Natural Gas as an alternative to imported Oil). 

 

JS

 

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 10:26pm

Yup... I'll take that.

So, now how about some evidence that O&G testing has caused the clean up of all this ground water?  (The original statement that I objected to).

Why aren't they (the O&G companies) promoting that in a big way?  You know, financing statistical studies so they can say "we caused the clean up of X% of wells in SOMECOUNTY, PA"   There has to be somewhere that they've promoted their societal benefit. Think of all that crap that PA farmers are no longer drinking!  Even if it was for the sake of making investors feel all warm and fuzzy.

After all... I trust that you weren't just pulling the statement that O&G testing has resulting in the clean up of ground water out of thin air... were you :-)

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 4, 2013 at 11:35pm

RE: "So, now how about some evidence that O&G testing has caused the clean up of all this ground water?"

Once again you are having a problem with reading comprehension.

And once again you are attributing statements to me that I never made.

I did not state that "O&G testing has caused the clean up of all this ground water" .

I stated that well testing pre and post fracking had discovered previously unknow problems with well quality; problems unrelated to fracing. Problems that can be solved, to the benefit of the person(s) who drink that water.

 

Here is exactly what I stated:

"it appears that fracing has done much to clean up PA's groundwater:

The well testing that has been promoted prior to and subsequent to fracing has shown many people that leaking septic tanks and surface run-off from dairy, beef cattle, horse, pig and poultry operations have been polluting their household water wells.

The well testing that has been promoted prior to and subsequent to fracing has shown many people that shallow biogenic methane and methane from the shallow coal measures are present in their water wells and (for their safety) their wells need to be vented.

The well testing that has been promoted prior to and subsequent to fracing has shown many people that harmful minerals (including arsenic) from the shallow coal measures are present in their wells"

 

I am a great fan of well testing.

My heightened interest has a personal origin: my wife developed Bowen's Disease; a form of skin  cancer "causes include solar damage, arsenic, immunosuppression, viral infectionn and chronic skin injury and dermatoses" Testing showed that she was suffering from arsenic poisoning; likely from the water well on the farm that she was raised on. Children, with their fast growing bones, are particularly susceptible to arsenic poisoning (arsenic replacing calcium in the growing bones). Once in the bones, it is there forever; cleation therapy does not work.

If fracing results in water well testing (especially of the huge number of wells that have never before been tested) that has got to be a good thing. That fact should make it through the thickest of skulls.

 

I would like to make three suggestions for you:

Get an eye exam, you seem to have problems is seeing what is on your screen in front of you.

If your eye sight pans out, schedule an exhaustive physical - you may have developed a problem with your cognitive abilites; you may be having difficulty understanding what is on your screen in front of you.

If you passed on the first two, get a psychological exam.

 

All IMHO,

                  JS

 

 

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 11:56pm

So then you either recant this statement

"it appears that fracing has done much to clean up PA's groundwater:

Or you choose to use anecdotal evidence of your statement... hmmmm... that is exactly what the fractivist do!  Are you a under cover factivist!  Say it isn't so!

And you choose to find new ways to insult a land owner on this forum in order to push your "scholarly knowledge" that we stupid land owners should be so grateful for.

Well... After that logic... let me bow down and welcome the O&G overlord who has promised to clean the water ways while belching rainbows!  

I will now check my brain and all forms of reasoned discussion at the door so that I may go blindly promote the gas industry, insinuate that I am a learned person like those that have been posting on this thread, and bully any land owners who might dare to ask questions!

Say, where do I get to sign up for that belching rainbows class?

Obviously, I disagree with your argument and it is clear that those on this thread are no different than the factivists that they claim to dislike.  First you say they're cleaning up the water, then you say they aren't... what is the difference between your anecdotal claim and the claims of the fractivists?

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 8:08pm

You can pay for all the test you like.  If the samples haven't been properly collected and controlled through the testing process... the results won't mean squat if you need to use them for litigation.

AS AN EXAMPLE: the company linked above (Water Test America) allows you to collect your own sample and mail it in to them.  That is fine if you want to just know what is in your water.  But, if you need to use those results in the future... how do you prove that you didn't just fill the samples up with bottled water?  You can't. 

That is why the testing company has to come and collect the samples.  When a certified lab provides results, they are certifying that they accurately collected the samples (didn't get a lump of horse dung in it or dilute it with distilled water) and they stand behind their testing results. 

That is also why when these anit-frackers shake a jar of water around on the screen, that water means NOTHING and that water can't be tested at this point because the conditions the water was held in (temperature, sunlight) and even the container (metal canning jar lids) can affect the water that it is containing.  It is basically a stupid conversation piece.

Again, the O&G companies operating in Ohio are not testing for any bacteria.  Please, provide a link to any O&G company who is testing for bacteria.  Or, for that matter, provide me any link to a fractivist who is complaining about bacteria.

Clearly you guys are not interested in discussion, because you feel a need to keep throwing out words like my ignorance.  Well... here is your chance, provide me any proof that O&G companies are testing for bacteria.  :-)

Permalink Reply by craig on January 4, 2013 at 10:46pm

They are not looking to prove your water is potable, at least in Pa. They are looking for a baseline of your waters composition so that when you complain that drilling caused it to go bad, they have a baseline to compare it with. 

I have a farm in Western Pa where we have had the water tested about once every decade. Yes, we should check it more, but don't. I am the exception in our area as not ONE of my neighbors has EVER had their water tested since the well was drilled. In fact with talking to the hundreds of customers of mine I can say that maybe 10% check their water at all. Now dairy farms are different as they test their water at least once every year, I suspect because of State mandates, which is a good thing.

Also, I personally know 3 folks who didn't even know they had a problem with their water until CHK had a certified lab do sampling. They even recommended solutions. So yes, they are helping clean up our water. 

kbrooks, you will not win any discussion with the type of posts and links you are providing because the facts do not support you. 

I still think that you are intelligent, but have been sucked into being a free 'tool' that the fractivists are using, without your knowledge. Please open your mind to what is really going on.

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 5, 2013 at 12:17am

Thanks for posting this and it is good information.  But, as Fang F Fang would say... it is also anecdotal information. But I do appreciate the post and the information.

The only fact that I posted is that bacteria testing is not part of the ODNR recommended water tests for baseline prior to Oil and Gas operations and that O&G operators are not testing for bacteria.  As has been posted by another, ODNR simply says that you might also consider having these general tests at the same time.  They are not included in any of the Tier 1 - Tier 3 tests.

I have stated my opinion that engine exhaust would not be visible at 200' away from the source as shown in the one video that was posted.

I have made the statement that when a person has an increase in tested methane levels after drilling activities, doesn't it make sense that they would view a connection between the increased methane and the drilling.  Of course, that was mis-represented into I said methane increased.  And the closest I said to that was (paraphase) "when we have clear tests in 5-6 years, I'll believe that"

I have asked for proof (non-anecdotal evidence - per Fang F Fang excellent comment) that O&G operations are cleaning up PA ground water, but that claim seems to have been withdrawn, so there is no longer an need for proof.

Finally, because I dared to ask questions, I'm painted as a fractivist.  I am not, but I am also not a sheeple like this site is filled with.  Examples:

- There's a gawd awful movie out right now that is terrible in its own right. (I've read the script).  It will make millions more than it could have ever hoped to make because all you "gassers" are having a cow about the release of this movie.  I'm sure they are saving hundreds of thousands on advertising because the gassers are doing it for them.

-there are some very fundamental flaws in the factivists arguments, but you gassers are opting to take the bully route... just keep spewing the same arguments and throw in insults on top of it for good measure.  And where do you get your arguments?  Well, one very popular poster here is a paid pundit in DC. Of the four popular posters that I've tracked down from here... they're all paid pundits.  So, when you start complaining that a fractivist is paid.. you are following your own paid pundit.  Land owners need to think for themselves and not get sucked into either of these sides that are little more than a PR battle.

So, anyway, thanks for the post, the information and the advice.  I don't see it as winning an argument, so much as trying to get at the truth.  And NEITHER side is actually telling the whole truth.

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 11:59pm

Evidence that who do not do what?

Permalink Reply by lynn on January 5, 2013 at 9:21pm

K-Atlas Energy just drilled a shallow well 5000ft from my property.  They paid a certified testing company to test our water prior to drilling.  The test took over an hour per well, they used their own hoses and containers.  Started by using a sniffer as they removed the well cap.  It took two weeks but we rec'd copies of the results, and yes one well did show bacterial contamination which was included in the report.  Bacterial test may not be state law but most of the people I know who have had wells drilled-even shallow-will tell you the gas companies are being proactive.  They know that a few dollars upfront could save them a lot in the end.

Permalink Reply by Gary on January 4, 2013 at 8:37pm

Nancy good luck ..I live just down the road from you and I'm not worried about it..that is my opinion.

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 8:38pm

In response to what Jack Straw had written, I wrote:

The well testing that has been promoted prior to and subsequent to fracing has shown many people that shallow biogenic methane and methane from the shallow coal measures are present in their water wells and (for their safety) their wells need to be vented.

So, you recognize methane gas in wells as a problem?  Correct?  So, when methane levels go from 0.02 prior to gas industry activities... then rise to 65 after gas industry activity... can you see why people think that the gas industry activities may have been the cause?

I did not say that methane does or does not increase post-drilling. 

I asked if it isn't understandable that people draw a connection between increased methane and drilling activities.

But, if you have studies that show no statistically significant increase in methane post drilling, please, do share. 

OR are you guys not required to support your claims?  You get to just throw anything out there and we land owners are supposed to lap it up as if you are some form of gods?

Oops... another hole in your argument... better stop digging :-)

BTW: I can't respond to your other statement where it was made... but my estimation of 200 feet is based on the semi-trucks in the video.  Given that they are approx 50 ft long, I made what I believe is a reasonable judgement about how far behind these trucks the generator/exhaust (hehehe) was being created and how far in front of them the third lighted area was.

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