Comment

Comment by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on February 13, 2010 at 2:12am

New York never actually BANNED the hydrofracing process at all.
Because of the loud and misguided outrage whipped up by extremist obstructionist groups (NY H2O for example) and the "disaster!" scenario they fed to the press, the state placed a temporary MORATORIUM on fracing over a certain size.
In reality, drilling and the frac process still happen in NY. And if a company wants to frac a large horizontal well they can do it by submitting voluminous paperwork to the state first.

The sad thing is the number of innocent bystanders that are caught up in the lies conjured up by ProPublica, NY H20, Damascus Citizens and their buddies.

Someone like yourself who is looking for actual FACT will find the garbage printed by these groups first -- and that is because the press just quotes anyone as an "expert" rather than checking to see what their agenda really is. Besides, disasters sell papers.

But slanted information is not what you need to make a decision. You need facts.

Comment by daniel cohen on February 12, 2010 at 4:17pm

Dear Greg & rfs,
Interesting info, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention here. As I read it, there seems to be agreement that things happen, that spills/contamination occur, and that the hydrofracing record is blemish free of aquifer contamination. Am I missing something here? Contamination has occurred, but not due to the hydrofracing process? Assuming the validity of what you say in your presentation, then our focus needs to be on what we as landowners can do to minimize/eliminate the practices that produce the contamination. The second thought that comes to mind is why would N.Y. ban the hydrofracing process?Your thoughts along these lines would be most valuable.

Below is the section selected, out of context, upon which I based my comments:
Some of the incorrect information being touted as fact is not just aimed at hydraulic fracturing, but it targets oil and gas activity in general. For example, an organization based in Ithaca, NY, called Toxics Targeting Inc. recently claimed there have been "270 oil and gas spills in New York" over the past 30 years – data it claims to have derived from government sources.

Jeff Eshelman and Chris Tucker of Energy In Depth, an organization representing America's independent oil and gas producers, have attempted to counter misinformation coming from groups such as this.
Toxics Targeting says the alleged "spills" caused by oil and natural gas drilling have caused fires, explosions, home evacuations, polluted drinking water and have had a long-term impact on forests, streams, wetlands, ponds, and other waterways.

Closer examination of the data, say Eshelman and Tucker, shows that many of these spills were at commercial and industrial sites, private homes, car and truck accidents, and even spills at gas stations. The total number of spills related to oil and natural gas exploration or production is 161 – not 270. Of these, the total number of spills related to gas exploration or production is just 45.
Thanks in advance.
Dan

Comment by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on February 12, 2010 at 12:11pm

Thank you, Greg Sovas, for excellent information.
This is the type of information I am referring to, Daniel, when I say that certain publications can be trusted. The author has many years of experience in the field and actual experience means much more than some theory proposed by a professor with a political agenda.
By the way, there are quite a few publications and organizations that jump from one disaster scenario to another. For instance, they will oppose wind power because birds may be killed when in reality their opposition is based on the fact that they don't want windmills blocking their view.

Comment by daniel cohen on February 11, 2010 at 6:55pm

Dear rfs,
I applaud your resolve to protect the land, all that is upon it, and to pass that wonderful legacy to your heirs. We feel the same. Our well is 400+ft.deep. Yours is quite a deep one also. How do you plan to protect the quality of your water? I recognize that you intend to inform yourself of the rules and regulations on drilling issues and plan to hold the drilling folks to them-that is exactly what needs to be done. I'm puzzled about your conclusion on the hydrofracing technique. I had come to a different understanding. Please share whatever you found that inspired the trust/confidence in it.

Comment by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on February 11, 2010 at 4:30pm

I have been studying this for the last two years. I have 68 acres and that land is MY LIFE. Since buying it 20 years ago we have protected it and the wildlife on it better than most people protect their families. And we intend to live here for the rest of our lives, at which point our son will take the land.

We love the perfectly clean water from our 600 ft deep well. It is necessary to life. Necessary to us.

That said, we have every intention of leasing and drilling. I am no idiot, I read material that has passed peer review. Not manufactured craziness.

Hydrofracing is safe and getting safer all the time. There are standard procedures in safe well drilling and I intend to make sure they are being followed. Besides, a gas company who is negligent won't last long here anyway.

I am environmentalist who actually PRACTICES what they preach. And I am confident that shale drilling will not contaminate water supplies, contrary to what the extreme crazies say.

Comment by daniel cohen on February 11, 2010 at 8:30am

Dear Dee,
You are a pistol!! Excellent stuff-right on target. I am truly impressed.
Dan

Comment by Dee Fulton on February 11, 2010 at 7:29am

PS Here's the website re:GasGun

http://thegasgun.com/?page_id=20

Comment by Dee Fulton on February 11, 2010 at 7:28am

In the course of studying hydraulic fracking, I found this industry add. It claims: "Large hydraulic fracture treatments can create a fracture hundreds, if not thousands, of feet in length........Hydraulic fracturing creates a single fracture oriented perpendicular to the least principal in situ stress. Unfortunately, the fracture propagates vertically as well as laterally seeking the path of least resistance. Many hydraulic fractures have been known to break out of the producing formation and into aquifers and thief zones." It then goes on to promote the GasGun as being more economical and "fractures are less likely to wander out of the producing zone" (and into the aquifer connected to your well and the river which serves as a source of drinking water). I vote for GasGuns over hydraulic fracking! I'll take 2!

Comment by Dee Fulton on February 11, 2010 at 7:14am

Here's a site which gives a quick overview of how water communicates underground.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/youthdevelopment/componen...

Next, here is an excerpt from Cornell University Extension office:

Potential Water Contaminantion related to Natural Gas Drilling

Drinking water wells generally draw from the first few hundred feet below the surface. The Marcellus Shale is about five thousand feet below ground in the Southern Tier of New York, but drilling must pass through the shallower aquifers to reach the deep shale. Shallow groundwater and surface water supplies are also at risk of contamination from surface spills of chemicals and from general road and construction activity. Wells and groundwater and surface supplies can be impacted by physical disturbance and/or chemical contamination.

Most of the problems associated with natural gas drilling in the Marcellus Shale in Pennsylvania have been traced to improperly constructed or damaged well casing. Steel and concrete well casing structures are essential to protect drinking water supplies by isolating aquifers from the natural gas well. Casing defects and/or damage has led to contamination of drinking water supplies with methane gas and total dissolved solids (TDS) or total suspended solids (TSS).

Surface spills of chemicals have also occurred in Pennsylvania. A September 2009 report by ProPublica summarizes an incident in Dimock, PA, for which the PA DEP has issued violation notices.

Gas Well Drilling and Your Private Water Supply (updated Jan 2009) This is an excellent resource from Brian Swistock of Penn State's water extension program, and includes recommendations about water testing related to Marcellus Shale natural gas drilling. Some of the legal information is specific to Pennsylvania; we will adapt this publication for New York soon when more legal information is available for New York.

The problem is that once your well is contaminated, there is no remedy. You will be awarded a settlement by the O&G company that entitles you to delivery of drinking water for life. And when you go to sell your home, I'm not sure that the water delivery transfers with ownership. A comment that a Dimock resident made suggested that it didn't.

Comment by daniel cohen on February 11, 2010 at 4:35am

Dear Shalers,
So what can we make of it all? For me, it seems to come down to 3 positions-1)Anti-drill 2)Pro-drill 3)environmentally sensitive cautious drilling with an eye out for contamination issues. The Anti-drill group is against drilling in any form, and point to horror stories to back their position. The Pro-drill group is for drilling no matter what, claiming jobs,riches and protection from mishaps. This protection they claim is backed by the company,State & Federal regulations. The third group, of which I now find myself in, takes the position that we can hope for the best (Pro-drill) and prepare for the worst(Anti-drill).

This means, that for me, any lease signed will have to have the possible aquifer contamination issue addressed , and full cleanup of the site as part of the agreement. On my part, careful water testing of my water well and pond will be an ongoing monitoring procedure, on a yearly basis. Further, since my neighbors activities can affect my water , as a good neighbor I'd want to let folks know what I'm doing to protect the aquifer and my family and why.I'd also encourage them to consider doing the same thing for their family and property.

If a company does not wish to include the above protections, I'm personally prepared to forgoe the possible $ rewards of the drilling. This is a hard, but very personal choice, not entered into lightly and clearly not for everyone.

I'd like to thank all those who have shared their thoughts and ideas , many with great passion, to help me formulate my own position. No matter where you come down on this, I wish you all good health, wealth and happiness.
Respectfully,
Dan

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