Propane -like refrigerents

I thought I'd try to write something with a glimmer of brightness in an otherwise often dismal forum.  I work at heating and air conditioning as a living.  I have witnessed the fazing out of R-12, and R-22 in my life and career.  410a has been the standard residential refrigerant now for perhaps 20 years.  134a is another common modern refrigerant, used most often in autos.  The powers-that-be are working to phase all modern HFC refrigerants, but have not found a good chemical that does not harm the ozone - except propane and various related chemicals.  So propane and other carbon based chemicals it is to be.  I asked a factory rep today how soon the change would begin.  He says 2022.  Well maybe that soon, but probably in the next 5 to 10 years.  As a serviceman, I'm not nuts about learning to handle flammable substances.  Hopefully, I'll be retired by then.

    As a landowner, I think that is great news.  Refrigeration has a tremendous demand for its chemicals.  This should develop into a great market enhancement in years to come.  Propane does make an excellent refrigerant, with much of the same performance as the old R-12.  I don't know what the other refrigerants will be, nor how they will be created.  I don't know if synthetic propane can be created economically.

    Of course Trump just pulled us out of the Paris Climate Accord, but we probably will still pursue the development and use of these new refrigerants as a country.

     Just trying to give us all a little cheer. 

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Permalink Reply by Dan on November 8, 2019 at 12:25am

Thanks Brian,

I have stayed in a few isolated cabins with dual fuel refrigerators and whole house propane lanterns.  In a crash wouldn’t the propane be pretty flammable on the expansion side.  You could order GM trucks that ran on propane in the 70’s.  Now I’m curios what kind of cabin heater is in an all electric car. 

Permalink Reply by Brian Day on November 8, 2019 at 2:45am

Volkswagon made an ugly car called The Thing in the early 70's.  It was cold as a tomb.  It had a small propane heater in it, much like you would find in an RV.  It had a small propane cylinder located to feed that heater.  I imagine electric cars may have the same, or they use radiant heat from the battery source.  This heater may be quite a draw on the battery, but if you live in Southern California, what does it matter?  I find the whole idea of using propane to replace environmentally damaging refrigerants deliciously ironic.

Permalink Reply by Brian Day on November 8, 2019 at 1:50pm

Yeah I have shot a deer or two in my time there.  Not s o many as some others.  Poor shot you know.  Dad and Grandad made up for me.    I remember pick-up boxes full to the gunales with doe on doe day.I guess the main season starts the Saturday after Thanksgiving.  That seems out of place, but a good plan I suppose.  Pa. never has allowed hunting on Sunday and that is a shame.  I don't know how old of an old timer you are.  Hell, I turned sixty a couple of months ago.  Do you still hunt?  As for the snow - I guess I better call Mom and Sister Dawn to make sure they are not snowed in.  They have a Kabota with a blade.  They should be fine.  They now have lots of ash firewood to burn too, thanks to the emerald borer bug.  Guess baseball bats will be hickory from now on.  I miss the beech trees too.

Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on November 11, 2019 at 2:16am

Not so many years ago hunters ran rampant in Pennsylvania.

The drove their vehicles on the fields, getting stuck in soft spots and causing deep ruts. Not to mention leaving gates open for cattle to get out. Cutting fences, leaving downed deer that were hit but not killed instead of looking for them.  Trying for very long shots and often  injuring them. Too damn lazy to walk a few hundred yards to look for evidence of a hit!  "Oh well we will see another deer to shoot at!" were the comments to be heard from these hunters.

And after season was done, many deer carcasses were found in local dump sites with only a few pounds of meat cut off for use. The rest left to rot away. Many of these outsiders came thinking that it was their God given right to trespass on private land and kill as many deer as they happened to see, legal or not. 

More then one hunter ended up having to pay for a farmer's cow because he saw something moving in the brush and just shot without knowing what it was.

And they call themselves hunters!  

Used to be that the neighbors would get together and have "DRIVES".  The younger folks that were able to walk for hours would pick an area and hoot and holler  therefore  moving deer toward older hunters who stayed put and then might have a better chance to make a kill.

It is always best to ask for permission to hunt on private land.

Granddad Ladd

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