Penn Land Owners

That previous post was fom the League of Women Voters of PA. The President's Message.

This is the position statement:
The LWVPA recognizes that natural gas extracted from Marcellus Shale is a finite, carbon-based, energy resource and that its production significantly affects the environment and the economy of the Commonwealth. Under Natural Resources positions adopted by LWVUS, we believe government policies should promote an environment beneficial to life through the protection and wise management of natural resources in the public interest. Under the Fiscal Policy position adopted by LWVPA, we support an equitable and flexible revenue system for funding state and local government services. Finally, in concert with the Pennsylvania Constitution, Article 1, Section 27, we believe:
The people have a right to clean air, pure water, and to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic and esthetic values of the environment. Pennsylvania's public natural resources are the common property of all the people, including generations yet to come. As trustee of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit of all the people.”

POSITION

The League supports

• the maximum protection of public health and the environment in all aspects of Marcellus Shale natural gas production, site restoration, and delivery to the customer, by requiring the use of best practices, and promoting comprehensive regulation, communication, and adequate staffing across government agencies.

• encouragement of employment opportunities at the local level and economic development related to natural gas extraction that will result in new streams of revenue for state and local government agencies–but not at the expense of tourism related to natural recreation areas.

• preventing a burden on Pennsylvania taxpayers by establishing a sufficient fee structure on natural gas extraction for permits, bonds, and surcharges for the funds to plug abandoned and orphan oil and gas wells, that reflects projected costs and unanticipated consequences.

• • creation of a severance tax on natural gas as a revenue source primarily designated for
- the preservation and enhancement of natural resources;
- the monitoring and protection of public health;
- an escrow fund for supporting community adjustment as the industry grows and declines; and
- research on the effects of natural gas extraction from Marcellus Shale on the economy, environment, and public health of Pennsylvanians.

• legislation and regulation that provides for

- transparency in all stages of exploration, drilling, and production stages;
- insures public input into decision-making regarding the location of facilities and related pipelines
- extends the timelines and parameters for testing water supplies;
- balances the rights of mineral and surface owners; and
- establishes an efficient and effective oversight system for reporting potential violations and accidents.

RFS, there is no way to reason with these poeple. Only time will tell the true story. And I for one will take great enjoyment in watching these radicals eat their words. I am a firm believer in the law of averages and statistics in general. Math does not lie. With not one absolute major disaster resulting in significant death or sickness it is safe to say that natural gas exploration is safe. Especially when you consider the half million or so wells that have been drilled. It's all political and they will never admit it. These people are pro government and anti big business. I'm not saying that's 100% wrong. But when you claim to be "pro environment" and yet do and say everything possible to thwart the smart, greener and ultimately logical natural evolution of our nations energy practices it convinces me these people are far left liberal extremists. Nothing more... Again, I am a registered democrat and I can see right through these people. They make no sense and contradict everything they supposedly stand for. Politics sucks !!! What a shame the nation has come to this. By the way I have not heard a peep out of any of these people regarding the spill in the gulf. Do they not care ? Hundreds of thousand of square miles contaminated by an oil spill. Millions of fish, birds and other wildlife will die, and not a peep out of these people. Truly unbelievable.

The spill in the gulf further justifies the need to evolve to natural gas. Which I am sure is why none of you "environmentalists" and I use that term loosley, have mentioned it.

John:
The spill in the gulf to me justifies the need to be more vigilant with the monitoring, regulating, and enforcement of the natural gas industry. After all the oil industry has also touted before that their practices were also safe. It is all in the way you look at news like this. I sure as hell do not want to be one of the gas industries "mistakes".

CJK - In response to Olivia Thorne's comments:

There is nothing explosive about the fracturing process. Her concerns are valid, but when she starts with a incorrect statement it is difficult to take her seriously.

Some of the most stringent regulations regarding oil and gas production are in the state of Alaska. Theirs might be a good example to follow.

Cheers,
Eberhard

Cheese and crackers!

You are all loosing the point of what this forum is supposed to be. It's not about bashing each others believes. Is it? I thought we are supposed to be sharing information on how to deal with the developing Marcellus gas play. If you think the development is dangerous state the corrective action that would mitigate this danger. We can work together polish it up and submit it to the legislatures for consideration. If we just through out instances of where things went wrong and say "I don't want to be next," we are not getting anywhere. If we say we should drill for gas, it'll save us from global warming. Then we are in the same boat.

There is going to be drilling. Let's start working out solutions to the issues that are arising.

Best Regards,
Eberhard

Dear Eberhard,
We can hope for the best, but need to prepare for the worst. Your call for focus on solutions is the next step we ought to be taking here. Finger pointing gets us nowhere.
Dan

EB, please read all previous posts. I understand your frustration but we have been here before, many times. I understand the current process is not perfect and the need to refine and improve things. Things could have been simplified so much in Dimmock if the landowners would have educated themselves. Fortunately as the play is developing many of the new leases are not boiler plate. They include protections that each landowner felt was needed from their own personel perspective. Every landowner has choices in this with regard to the lease agreement. It is the single most important factor for all of us. Natural gas is a viable short term sollution to our energy needs. The other side will not even admit it is better in every way than coal or oil. They actually try to place fear in our hearts by posting articles that state natural gas will be 72 times more detrimental to the environment than coal. For some reason they choose to live in that dream world. Solar and wind energy are not reallistically quick game changers. I will at least admit they are great ideas, they have merit, they should be considered the future energy of our nation. But, they are not a cure all. By converting the nations tractor trailor fleet with natural gas powered motors we cut OPEC in half !!! We cut carbon emissions greatly, we are less dependdant on foreign oil, we create jobs, we stimulate local and national economies. So many thousands of wells have been hydrofracked its silly. And these people continue to dwell on Dimmock and try to create fear by getting everyone to buy into their theory that this is the norm and what we should all expect going forward. Please read all of the previous posts. I have stated my opinion many times and I have offered what I beleive to be excellent advice. The other side does not progress. They want to fulfill their political agenda. It is very evident now. It get frustrating.

CJK and Marie. I cave, You win. I will now dedicate my life to the status quo. Coal is my new energy of choice, even though it has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths. It pollutes our rivers and streams so much more than natural gas exploration ever will. I no longer believe in converting our fleets to NG. Instead lets stick with gas. I've changed my viewpoint from big picture to tunnel vision. The risks of NG are too much for me. After all my 28 acres is far more important than the good of mankind as a whole.

This is pointless.
If you really have a problem with gas drilling, now is the time to sell. Values are way up and you should make a killing. Where to go may be an issue, as other states have toxic problems of different types. But there may not be gas drilling. Just don't move south or certain areas out west. Or any place with a nuclear facility, wind farms, coal mining, industry of any kind....you could try Canada near the arctic circle, but the Inuit may not want you .

rfs, you are correct!

This thread should have been deleted about a month ago....What a waste of hard disk space....

But Marie, it is not frac chemicals causing the problem. What part are you having a problem with?
Also, the gas companies are already responsible for creating problems if it is their fault. No new laws are needed.
If you lease your land, make sure the lease calls for water testing BEFORE any activity and during the drilling.
Even people who didn't bother to wait for better leases still get the problems fixed. And by now the gas companies have figured out it is better for them to test all wells before drilling to protect themselves from false claims.
So really all of your complaints are covered and need no more work (except that YOU as a landowner have to be a part of the process!)

rfs- "And by now the gas companies have figured out it is better for them to test all wells before drilling to protect themselves from false claims" The gas companies are testing them, but what the landowner gets is a two page test report that is worthless in a court of law. They have a disclaimer on the bottom saying the testing is not reliable because it was not taken in the appropriate manner and they do not supply the landowner with any executive summary. In fact sometimes they do not even report the methane levels. I have seen them. Nothing like letting the fox take care of the hen house!
I hope your neighbors have a good lease like you do because if they do not you might be fracked!

rfs- "And by now the gas companies have figured out it is better for them to test all wells before drilling to protect themselves from false claims" The gas companies are testing them, but what the landowner gets is a two page test report that is worthless in a court of law. They have a disclaimer on the bottom saying the testing is not reliable because it was not taken in the appropriate manner and they do not supply the landowner with any executive summary. In fact sometimes they do not even report the methane levels. I have seen them. Nothing like letting the fox take care of the hen house!
I hope your neighbors have a good lease like you do because if they do not you might be fracked!

In our case all we would have to do is hook into the municipal water supply instead of using our well water. Most people here have both already.
It isn't an issue anyway, yet, because we have not signed a lease and neither has our entire block (we would like to stick together). We all resisted the first bunch of offers and wanted better lease protections even when the money was really good.
But all of this has to be looked at from the right perspective. Plenty of wells have methane when they are drilled and have to be redrilled. It is a common problem in the area. There are ways to fix certain problems in water too, depending what the problem is.
But my real point is that NO ONE has frac chemicals in their well. And that is the most common thing I keep hearing....frac toxins will ruin the water. No truth to it though.

Sorry for the double posting it seems there is a lag when adding comment.
Sorry to say but I know of someone in NW PA that did have fracing chemicals in their water. It is not impossible. Especially if casing is not done properly. In addition, no one is sure if it will surface somewhere, sometime in the future and we need to be concerned with that. One thing I would like to see is for the companies to put tracers in their fracing operation so we can know for sure if and when it does occur. Not too much to ask.

rfs- Where does your municipal water come from?

Dear Marie,
WOW!
Dan

Dan:
This is not new Visions has that policy as well, in fact there are many banks that are considering calling their mortgages in because of the gas leases on the property. It is my understanding that gas leases take a priority to mortgages in the courts. The banks do not want any risks. It is conceivable if anything might happen on the property that not only would the banks lose their investment but they could be possibly listed in the law suit as a party of interest.

Dear CJK,
WOW again! This just gets better and better doesn't it!
Thanks,
Dan

Again, the mortgage issue is only new to us northern states. It is common in the south where drilling has been going on forever. A member of another forum I am on discovered the mortgage thing last year and we looked into it.
As it turns out, there is just an additional form and fee involved when there is a gas lease on the property. Any bank who does not know this yet should be told to get further information. It is no longer a problem among those lenders who keep up with new matters. Which is most of them except the few mentioned.

rfs- A bank can make their own independent decisions.
BYW- Where do you get your municipal water from? I am not looking for a specific location to identify you as you attempted to do when looking at my profile on April 29th, I do not care about your location. What I am trying to make you understand is that your municipality gets it water from a ground source, correct? Therefore it is at as much of a risk as your well water, in fact more, because you have more control over your water source but little to none over the municipality. Does your municipality check for fracing chemicals? or VOC's? etc. Do you receive report from them as to their testing procedures? You would be wise to check into all of these details before you assume that you will be receiving water that will not contain untested components.

As promised a few weeks ago, here is an actual copy of the most recent water test"

05-04-2010 06;24;52PM.JPG

You can only be victimized if you allow yourself to be. Whether it is a bank who won't cooperate even when there is standard procedure, or it is taking responsibility for your decisions on leases, or keeping track of what happens on your land if and when a gas company works there, etc. It's all up to you in the end.

rfs- I totally agree with you about your last post and being a victim. But my experience has shown me that not everyone is as strong as you and I. There are people that can be easily victimized, and while it is not mine nor your responsibility to make sure everyone is not victimized, it is in my best interest and my community as a whole to ensure that others are not victimized in this Gas Play. Their "victimization" can become not only their nightmare but mine as well. I am willing to support them to help them out and for my ow good in the end, after all isn't that what "community" is about?

hunter777- what is this water test about? Is it pre or post drilling? what stage? What is the chronology of events? Obviously there is some comparison of events over approximately a year's worth of time? Were the VOC's tested? any other metals? Sorry but it does not mean much to me because I do not know what you have promised.

I keep reading about contaminating the aquafers and all the chemicals added to the drilling processes and how it is not safe and the accidental pollution that is taking place.

But we are doing this polluting our environment everyday and causing health problems for us all. And yet many of us care little what we are putting our families and friends thru.

I already mentioned the weed killers and bug spray being used in a previous posting. But how about cigarette smoking? Well how about it?

How many of us die each day from smoking? Emphesema, lung cancer, aneurisms?

When I was a kid My mother smoked. My father did not smoke. I recall vividly riding in the back seat of the family car. I was about 7 or 8 years old. My mother lighted up a cigatette. The smoke was making me sick. I asked her to please not smoke.

She replied, "I dont see why I can't have a little bit of pleasure without someone complaining!"

She did not care that I was in misery! She was polluting the air that I had to breathe and I tried to point that out to her. Whenever she had a friend visit her, I recall her always saying, Wont you have a cigarette?

This was back in the 1940's. Smoking was the thing to do.......And today we finally understand just how dangerous it was.

So what about our water supply? Much testing needs to be done to avoid more health problems. We do need the energy from the fracting. Research needs to be done. Risks will be taken in order to save money.

Are we going to plunge forward recklessly or are we going to try to balance the risks against the advantages?

Bill L
aka Bummy

Sorry for the confusion, but the informational posts get lost in the mudslinging and opinion. Check my past posts for the history.

These water tests are a result of post drilling testing. As I mentioned before, we are in the Dimock area and within 1000' of a well. The first test was done shortly after completion and the latest was done a little over a year later as a comparison. As you can see, not all gas exploration results in water quality degradation. This is my purpose for posting this. Among all the conjecture and hypotheticals, here is some factual information to guide the forum members in forming an opinion!

"This was back in the 1940's. Smoking was the thing to do.......And today we finally understand just how dangerous it was.

So what about our water supply? Much testing needs to be done to avoid more health problems. We do need the energy from the fracting. Research needs to be done. Risks will be taken in order to save money.

Are we going to plunge forward recklessly or are we going to try to balance the risks against the advantages?"

Why do we keep talking about fraccing as some new danger that needs to be researched before trying?

Fraccing, like smoking, has also been around for decades.

Dear Shalers,
We seem to be going over older issues reviewed in the following sites:

http://www.gomarcellusshale.com/profiles/blogs/health-issuesairwater

http://www.gomarcellusshale.com/profiles/blogs/aquifer-contaminatio...

http://www.gomarcellusshale.com/profiles/blogs/aquifer-contaminatio...

We need now to try to put together a more powerful voice- not just our individual ones, but larger landowner group voices and perhaps a broader regional voice from out of that. Any thoughts along these lines, or is this too ambitious an undertaking?

Dan

The drillers are going to drill no matter of individual fears or opinions. But these drillers must be wary of what they are doing saftey wise. If pollution has been caused by a driller then he must be prepared to stand the cost to fix it, whatever "it" might be if something goes wrong. Landowners are taking big risks too. Farmers who have had their property passed down for generations have a lot to lose too. Many of them have lived their entire lives on the same few acres of land. To have their property destroyed in a few months by uncareing drillers or moneymen cannot be tolerated and should not be tolerated!

Bill L
AKA Bummy

BURLINGTON - Some residents in Burlington Borough are dealing with a water mystery.

The matter came to the surface at the borough council meeting Tuesday.

According to council member Jerri Renzo, at least five residents on the Berwick Turnpike have been dealing with the problem for a year.

"We're finding like a grit in the bottom of our tub, which we never had before," she said. "We've always had iron, but we learned to live with that. But we've had problems with our water softener, so we had someone come and check it, and they said it was the water ... it wasn't that we needed a new one or anything like that."

She said her water was tested, and it showed high levels of magnesium and strontium. Now, she said they're buying bottled water to drink, noting it's an inconvenience and can be costly.

She said they just don't know what's causing it. "We don't know," she said. "We want to find out."

According to Renzo, the state Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) advised the residents not to drink it or brush their teeth or cook with it, so they're not ingesting it.

"We've never had good water in this town, no one has, but over the past year, it's gotten worse," she said.

Judy Parmenter said a test showed high levels of manganese, iron, sodium, and chloride in her water.

During the meeting, she showed a cup with a dark-colored residue in it from her water.

She thought about 10 people were affected in the borough.

But the residents may have an answer soon.

According to Parmenter, someone from state Sen. Gene Yaw's office informed her that John Hanger, DEP secretary, is reviewing the situation and maybe already delegating it to the proper people.

"We should be hearing from them in a week, we hope," she said.

"It's gets to be very smelly," she said of the water. "The smell is terrible, it goes through the whole house. It sometimes makes you nauseated. When you take a shower, sometimes it burns, sometimes it itches."

"Some people got a rash, not all of us."

Parmenter said the whole experience has been inconvenient with having to get bottled water to use.

"I'm hoping they're (DEP) going to tell me that they're going to send in officials to help us find the cause, to help us find a way to clear it up and stop it from going to other residents."
http://thedailyreview.com/news/water-woes-aired-in-burlington-1.762313

I would like to know how the DEP could advise the residents not to drink it or brush their teeth or cook with it, so they're not ingesting it and not advise them to not bathe in it? The skin is the largest organ of your body and you stand to absorb a higher amount of toxins through this organ because of the larger amount of surface area. What are they going to do about the cows drinking this water? What about the milk that will have these toxins in it?

Am I still being overeactive to the situation or is this contamination becoming more common?

CJK - I don't see any mention of gas drilling in this article. I'm sure water contamination is becoming worse everywhere but not necessarily because of gas wells. In Southwestern PA, many of our streams and creeks, unfortunately, are already polluted from coal mines, steel mills, and raw sewage that has run into the waterways for years. I'm not saying pollution is ok, but it's not always related to gas drilling. In fact, I saw the gas company taking water out of one of these already polluted streams to use in their drilling operation - maybe that could contribute to the problem - they are using already contaminated water for the fracking.

Carol that is a very good point, but if they are taking polluted water and placing where there was not pollution, that act is a pollution as a result of gas drilling. Then they should not be allowed to use those polluted waterways for their operations.
You are right there is not mention of gas drilling but I will tell you coming from the area, that the dates they started detecting a change in their water and the dates they started drilling in that area are very close, too close for coincidence. I am not saying the industry is guilty yet, but they obviously woud be the first to suspect and not because I have it out for them, but it is the logical path to follow. Burning and itching when coming in contact with "water" is not a good thing.

--- On Wed, 5/5/10, tillman4council@aol.com wrote:

Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 11:52 PM
Please post on your blogs and websites.
There have been a lot of my friends in the industry who have found it
necessary to begin aggressive personal attacks on me. Several industry
publications, such as the Powell Barnett Shale Newsletter have had articles
and editorials stating that I am pretty much everything but a nice person.
This activity is not new; however, the intensity has been elevated and it
has gotten much more personal. This tells me that I must be making an
impact, or they would not attack me personally. This also tells me that they have given up on attacking the message, now they are only attacking the man.

Obviously, anyone who would bother to read the Powell Newsletter knows that it is industry funded. As everyone also knows by now, I do not accept compensation or travel expenses for my presentations, and unfortunately those at the Powell Newsletter can't say the same. They are in all reality a paid cheerleader for the natural gas industry, join me Gene...rah rah rah...gooooo... Chesapeake.
Frankly, if the industry wants to truly be successful they would embrace the ideas that I bring forward, which is doing business in a respectful and
responsible manner. I find that in every presentation I give, there are
always a few who show up that have read the propaganda and are looking for a fight. However, after listening to my message it is apparent that I am not some anti-drilling wacko and the picture that has been painted of me is inaccurate, and it is always nice to hear that they agree with my points before they leave.
Everyone knows that the industry has an ugly baby, except for the industry themselves. I know it must be difficult to admit your baby is ugly, but like they say about alcoholics, you must first admit you have a problem before can move one. Instead this industry continues to deny their baby is ugly.
There is really no doubt for anyone who has accomplished even a small amount of research that there is certainly a downside to this industry. If this downside is not mitigated in some manner we will be looking at a mess that will need to be cleaned up down the road when all of these companies are long gone. As history has shown us, these companies are typically nowhere to be found when it comes time to clean up the mess. That cleanup project is left for the citizens and taxpayers, not the companies who made billions making the mess. The industry will outsource this cost to the hard working American people, just as that try to do for all of their costs. The industry wants us to believe that they are a fledgling industry who cannot afford to take simple measures needed to make the shale plays a win-win situation. I think that most of us know that this industry spends billions lobbying to prevent them from being mandated to do it right. Therefore, they could and should do this process more responsibly and respectfully.
They are picking the pockets of the citizens of Pennsylvania, who will be
paying for the mistakes made by their elected officials for many years to
come. This state is one of two that have oil and gas activities, and do not
have a severance tax for the minerals. They pay this tax in every other
state, and will gladly pay it in Pennsylvania, but continue to lobby for the
outsourcing of their costs to the taxpayers. This could be billions when it
is all said and done, but as it stands, the billions will come from hard
working Pennsylvania taxpayers.
Every location that has natural gas exploration in Pennsylvania has
something in common, and that is destroyed roads. Instead of being the good neighbor we keep hearing about, they outsource the cost of the road repair to the taxpayers. However, these small communities simply can't afford to pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars in road repairs; therefore, the citizens in these areas drive on destroyed roads, worse than I have ever seen. If the natural gas industry wanted to improve their image, they should embrace a severance tax in Pennsylvania, instead of chasing me around the country.
As the oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico shows, we are one wrong move from a catastrophic event. As any good Texan does, I really enjoy my gulf shrimp. Unfortunately, thanks to the reckless actions of this industry, it will likely be several years before I can enjoy it again. That is not the bad
part though; the bad part is that something similar will happen here before this is over. It is only a matter of time before we have that catastrophic event somewhere in one the shale plays. However, in the shale plays they have put this hazardous activity in school yards and neighborhoods. So guess what is going to happen when the catastrophe happens here? There will be a lot of dead people.
The last editorial written Gene the "propaganda machine" Powell himself,
was entitled "All Hat and No Cattle" (http://www.barnettshalenews.com/documents/2010/TillmanEditorialAllH... 010.pdf). I must admit that I do not have any cattle. However, I would like to have cattle, but I am afraid they would die or abort their calves, like they do in the small town of Clearville, PA, home of Clearville Gas Storage. In this area the hard working Americans have to purchase their own filtration system to take the high levels of arsenic out of their well water. Most of the surface and ground water has been contaminated by this reckless industry in Clearville, PA.
As one of my new friends in Pennsylvania said, I am the new villain for the
industry extremists. They rally around the Powell Newsletter, which gives
me an entire section of every issue. Whatever happens, they blame me for
their problems. If a large landowner refuses to sign a one sided lease, it
will be my fault. If a community demands that the industry be responsible, it is that Calvin Dewayne Tillman's fault. When people rally around the idea of a fair and equitable severance tax...yep, you guessed it...Calvin's fault. It has nothing to do with the industry that has contaminated dozens of private water wells in Pennsylvania, and is destroyed air quality and property values wherever they have been, leaving a path of destruction in their wake. It has nothing to do with the industry that outsources its cost to the taxpayers, while its executives make hundreds of millions dollars in bonuses. Nope, those things have no influence on public perception. It is only that mayor of DISH; Calvin Dewayne Tillman, that causes all of this grief for the natural gas industry.
If the industry would be responsible and respectful, instead of searching
out a new way to attack me, they would be much better off. However, it
appears the more they attack me, the more people come to see what the big deal is. As bad as they hate it, every presentation that I give is to a
packed house. Furthermore, I find dozens more who want me to speak in their town. People want to know the truth through eyes of someone that has lived it, not a paid cheerleader. I truly wish the industry would do the smart thing and let me help them become responsible and respectful. However, they are going to continue to be the irresponsible bully, blaming me for all of their problems.
Mr. Powell is right on another matter; I have no shortage of arrogance
against this industry. Maybe it was my Oklahoma raising, or the fact that
my parents would not allow me to stand by while a bully ran over those too passive to defend themselves, but I am not afraid of this industry and
certainly will not be deterred by their personal attacks. Frankly, seeing
this fear that has been struck in these industry extremists keeps me going, when my energy has run out. You should see the looks on their faces, when I walk over and shake their hand. So I hope Mr. Powell and the extremists keep "Poking the Bear", regurgitation the same propaganda, because in the end, that may be what forces them to be respectful and responsible, and hopefully those companies that chose not to will perish. God bless.
Calvin Tillman
Mayor, DISH, TX
(940) 453-3640

"Those who say it can not be done, should get out of the way of those that
are doing it"

What a whack job.

Dear John,
You disappoint me. That's not as important as you disappointing yourself and those who look to you to learn. You have a good head and much to share, but your last comment wasn't worthy of yourself.
Dan

Some of the information the writer conveys is actually worth reading. Then he or she starts to sensationalize. Turned me right off. Please not the whack job commented was directed towards the writer of the article not CJK. Youe right Daniel I should not have written that. I'm just frustrated.

I get frustrated with the overblown comments people make. Specifically comparing the gulf disaster. Read below and tell me if you think this is really going to happen here and if it has ever happened anywhere else in the world via natural gas exploration.

It is only a matter of time before we have that catastrophic event somewhere in one the shale plays. However, in the shale plays they have put this hazardous activity in school yards and neighborhoods. So guess what is going to happen when the catastrophe happens here? There will be a lot of dead people.

Give us a for instance of the type of disaster that could happen that would kill alot of people ?

Or a comet could fall on your head tomorrow.
It might be a wiser idea to see how every other gas shale area has done. We are not reinventing the wheel with this.
If you bother to read INDEPENDENT information you will see that none of this happens with any degree of regularity. Frankly, I can see more depression and drinking going on from all the years of poverty and joblessness in PA and the other marcellus areas. There are more dead bodies from suicide than anything you imagine!

Dear Shalers,
With special thanks to Angel, we all ought to be getting behind some of the recommendations that this senator is making.

Senator Casey asks federal agency to investigate drilling contamination
Tuesday, April 27, 2010
by Laura Legere
Scranton Times-Tribune
Senator Bob Casey is asking the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to investigate cases of water contamination related to natural gas drilling in Pennsylvania after a gas company operating in Susquehanna County failed to stop methane from leaking into residents' drinking water.
In a letter Monday to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, Mr. Casey said he wants greater EPA involvement in the state because contamination incidents, including methane migration in Dimock Twp., "raise the question of whether the necessary steps have been taken to protect Pennsylvania families and communities against the detrimental side effects of drilling."
The oil and gas industry is largely exempt from federal environmental oversight and is instead regulated by state agencies. In Pennsylvania, the Department of Environmental Protection regulates the industry.
But in a press conference Monday, Mr. Casey said several layers of government oversight may be necessary to ensure drilling is done safely. And he believes the federal environmental agency already has some power to regulate the industry in general - and to investigate the Dimock incident specifically - through the Superfund program and emergency powers outlined in the federal Safe Drinking Water Act.
He wants the EPA to determine its authority under those laws. If the agency finds that it does not have sufficient authority to protect against the hazards of drilling, it should ask Congress for more, he said.
"I have a concern that there isn't enough of a federal responsibility here," he said, "or even if there is the statutory authority, that the federal government hasn't done enough in terms of investigation or action in this area."
Last year, Mr. Casey introduced legislation, called the FRAC Act, that would require the hydraulic fracturing of natural gas wells to be regulated under the Safe Drinking Water Act. It would also require that drilling companies disclose the chemical composition of the fluids they mix with sand and water to break apart - or hydraulically fracture - the gas-bearing rock.
The gas industry maintains that hydraulic fracturing has never been the confirmed cause of drinking water contamination and argues that federal oversight would be an unnecessary burden.
Mr. Casey said Monday that it is possible for gas drilling to be done safely. "We don't have to choose between jobs and the environment, or choose between economic opportunity and protecting families' drinking water," he said.
Victoria Switzer, a Dimock resident whose drinking water has been contaminated with methane, said she and 13 neighbors have had to live with that choice because oversight of the industry was not stringent enough to protect them.
"We've lost our drinking water; there's lots of gas there. That's not a choice people should have to make," she said.

It is impossible to forsee every incident of a destructive nature in a persons life! The human being is only here because of the destruction of other animals, huge dinosaurs and other predators.

None of us can predict what will happen in the future. Yes, we might be able to steer our way around danger that we can see but in the process dive headlong into a situation that is much more apt to be fatal to us.

Having said this, the question comes up, are we going to stop where we are just because of the fear of whatever is ahead of us?

NO, we will not stop moving ahead! Nor should we stop! Learn from the mistakes of the past!


Someone said in answer to one of my postings about pollution and contamination by smoking cigarettes and using weed and insect killers that there was no relationship between the drilling and fracting of marcellus shale.

Well sir, I was trying to point out the dangers that are associated with these activities! Smoking kills a lot of people from lung cancer and emphysema and still other people continue to smoke! They seem bent on suicide! I'm not going to even get into weed and insect killers.

I say Proceed with care!

Bill L.
aka Bummy

Carolyn, you are correct in a way. Gas companies are attempting to get forced pooling passed. However, the statement "once you lease your land, you do not get to pick and choose what the gas company does. So that means pipelines, compressor stations, whatever they choose to build." is not correct. We all have choices. If you do not want compressor stations or pipelines on your land have that written into your leae agreement. You do not have control over what your neighbors do I agree. Ibviously compressor stations and pielines are an essential piece to bring every together and to get the gas to market, but really if you do not want it on your property get it written into your lease agreement. Just know, someone will need to bend. If you feel strongly just make sure it's not you. Pretty simple.

I took a ride to Dimock yesterday with my wife. We traveled down Carter Road. I saw a few empty water containers next to the road. We saw four water trucks traveling south on Route 29 on the way up and a Haliburton truck leaving Carter Road when we made the turn in. Other than that it was pretty quiet. The landscape is beautiful. I saw four or five well pads. I expected to see alot more cosmetic flaws to the landscape as described by CJK and Marie as a result of Cabots drilling. The road wear didn't appear to be any worse than where I live. I saw several areas that appeared to be freshly patched.

John:
Carter Road was all cleared up? If you only saw four or five well pads you need to travel on other roads. Did you find the placement of the pads to be environmentally appropriate? Did you see where and how they are running the pipelines? or did they have them covered up already? Did you see the close proximity of the wells? Some of them from different energy companies? The roads might be improved now but I visited during the Spring thaw, at time that I think should have limited to no drilling done because of the road issues.

I went to a Penn State program last night I have some information that I will share with all later today. One thing I will share now, Jim Umholtz, formerly with the DEP could not stress enough, if there is a problem that you have with a drilling company call the DEP, do not just call the drilling company and attempt to get them t clear it up. In many instances the ompanies are not clearing up the problems and as it stands now they have no obligation or requirement to report any complaint that they receive to the DEP. IMO, if you want to possibly get quicker action and establish a legal paper trail, do not wait until you are not satisfied with the gas company to call DEP, call both. Or better yet put both of them on official notice with either a email or snail mail letter. The more documents the better it will be for you.
SRBC is also doing a water monitoring study and they are putting monitoring systems in various waterways. I will provide more information later for those that do not know about this.

Pennsylvania from Below, a group that spent some time in
Dimock and Susq. Co. gathering stories and info about the gas drilling.
Those, along with other pieces about unemployment and Keystone Opportunity Zones (tax-free zones) make up a paper that we've just got back the printer: Pennsylvania from Below.

Wanted to share this info and site.There are people downstate that are concerned as well.

http://pafrombelow.info/files/PennsylvaniafromBelow.pdf
The site did not go through- here it is

I didn't comment on the water situation. All I was saying was from a cosmetic perspective and a traffic perspective all was quiet and the area is beautiful. The roads were not bad at all. PA roads in general are terrbile as we have more miles of roads than any state including TX and AK. We also have the most varying weather patterns. Pa has always struggled to keep the roads in driveable conditions. I thought I we sould much worse conditions.

CJK I cannot comment on pipeline placements. I would need to really study them to form an educated decision. I may take another ride when I have more time. The well placements looked to be within the legal boundaries. I will say yes, they were too close for comfort in my opinion and I would not allow the gas company to drill that close to my house. If it ever comes to it I will make this a provision in my lease agreement or I won't sign.

20 rigs to drain 620 acres? Makes no sense. 20 well heads to drain 620 acres doesn't even make sense. I'll hav to look into those numbers. I doubt they are accurate.