Ashtabula County, OH

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  • elliemae82

    Does anyone know if BM decided to divide Ash. by townships? Also if they have any minimum on what they are willing to accept per acre?

  • john p halloran

    Last I heard was 5 acres.
  • Craig Stull

    I,m hearing BP wants to lease more land north of Trumbull !!

  • Joseph-Ohio

    http://gomarcellusshale.com/forum/topics/beware-of-all-the-gas-comp...

    Take the above link to what I think is an important and very informative discussion on the GMS General Forum.

     

  • Helen

    Just noticed at the Ashtabula Co recorders office, NELA has released most all their Leases. Does anyone know what is going on???

  • Melinda

    Well.....NELA bailed out!!! Just got the letter the other day stating that they have released our lease and that the oil companies are pulling out. Now where do we sign?
  • Joseph-Ohio

    Can you post a copy of their letter to you ?
    Oil companies may be pulling away from the NELA agreement but I don't think they can speak for the O & G industry or other interests.
    They (NELA) can only speak for themselves.
  • Melinda

    Yes, I will...
  • Joseph-Ohio

    Time to think.
    What good did being 'Signed Up' with NELA do ?
    Time to be careful.
  • Helen

    We received a letter as well, seems everyone will be receiving a letter who had signed with NELA.

  • Joseph-Ohio

    I'll make a prediction that there will be a lot of 'low ball' offers hitting unsigned / unleased Ashtabula County landowners / prospective lessor next.
    Maybe more approaches from those kinds of outfits that want you to sign up for long term without paying for the commitment.
    If there's no money in it why sign.
    We're on the 'pay me the money then we'll sign' bus ourselves.
    No money no sign the way we see it.
  • Mark Dolezal

    In my opinion, you only negotiate a lease when a driller or competing drillers wants your acreage. That's why we were never believers in NELA or BMD. We as landowners started our own group known as EGL , Eastern Geauga Landowners. We continue to enroll landowners in our database and maps. We keep our finger on the pulse of the drilling activity and educate the landowners on issues such as title clearing of old leases. We will be ready if and when they come to our area. This has long been an area of gas and oil activity and changes in new technology will only improve our chances for exploration in new formations.

  • Joseph-Ohio

    http://gomarcellusshale.com/forum/topics/latest-ohio-legislature-bi...

    Take the above link and tell us what you think about the discussion and how it relates to the new force pooling rules and how it all could very negatively impact landowners / lessor / prospective lessor.
  • Jackie

    There is a free Oil & Gas seminar tonight,12/12, at the Jefferson Community Center located at 27 East Jefferson.  They're supposed to be discussing current state of leasing in the region and other topics.   Seminar starts at 6 PM.  

  • Joseph-Ohio

    Our lands being in Richmond Township, Ashtabula County caused me to call our Ohio House District 99 Representative John Patterson and go on record with our complaint of landowner abuse / trespass.

    Every landowner ought to do the same.

    Call your Ohio House Representative and give him / her an earful.

    Couple the Severance Tax Rule changes being discussed with the newer Force Pooling and you've got a major landowner mess.

    The worst of it is the Force Pooling debacle.

    J-O

  • Bill Simpson

    Jackie..

    Who is giving or presenting this meeting? This is the first that I and I'm sure others have heard about it as I do not see any postings on it. Would appreciate it very much if anyone who attends can post any info on any potential or non potential drilling in Ashtabula County (north of Rte 6).

  • elliemae82

    Anyone make it to this meeting? Just wondered who gave it and if we have any hope for the new year coming?

  • Jackie

    The meeting was held by F & M.  They form landowner groups and then try to negotiate the best possible lease with the big guys.  They are attorneys and right now they're getting ready to help people get out from under their Wishgard leases for a fee.  Wishgard is bankrupt and there's not much recourse with them right now. They would also like to be in touch with people who were released from their NELA leases.  They plan to have other meetings and I hope to attend.  I'll keep you posted with any info I get and give you the dates and times of future meetings.

  • Ed Tygard

    Its not hard getting out from the Wishgard lease.  All you have to do is send a simple letter requesting release.  Wishgard has provided dozens of releases to people who followed this simple procedure.  However it's worth noting that Wishgard has paid millions of dollars to landowners in Ashtabula..

  • Jackie

    For whatever reason, people in attendance at the meeting wanted help with obtaining and recording the releases. Not sure about millions of dollars being paid.  Some of the folks there said they got a dollar after signing the Wishgard lease. 

  • Mark Dolezal

    Join your local group...EGL- Eastern Geauga Landowners

    www.eg-land.org

  • Joseph-Ohio

    Are they interested only in obtaining landowner acreage commitment ?
    Did they offer a leasehold agreement to study ?
    Any discussion of dollar per acre sign on bonus ?
    Have they had any discussions with Oil & Gas Exploration & Production Companies ?
  • elliemae82

    Joseph, what do you think of EGL? I was debating between EGL and BM. I think you can back out of EGL if you don't like the lease. But I think your stuck with majority if you sign with BM. I'd really like to hear your opinion on this. Or anyone else that would like to chime in. Thanks

  • Dan

    F/M has been around for a few years . They didn't have much to offer and had a very high take on the signing bonus. 

  • Gavin Callaway

    I chatted with Blackridge a few months ago, to see if they were going to come further up into Ashtabula (they leased up acreage in the two SW Townships of Ashtabula at $5k Bonus and 20% Royalty).  I was informed that over time that was their intentions, but there were added expenses dealing with the old existing wells.  It is good to band together, but I was turned off by the restrictions of NELA, and was leaning to the EGL.  If I remember right, EGL could bind you to a lease lower than what I felt we could eventually get.  Mr. Dolezal could respond to that.  Anyways....I feel someday Ashtabula will be back in High Cotton, for drilling technologies are changing as we speak, and Ashtabula is sitting on a nice red zone (deep) pool of Oil.  Time will tell.....

  • Joseph-Ohio

    You know, higher sign on bonus / higher royalty percentages (above 12.5%) have always had me thinking.

    That's because no matter what, I haven't found the 'free lunch' anywhere as of yet; and I've been around a few years and a lot of blocks.

    Can't prove it but, I'll guess that the higher sign on bonus and / or royalty payout, the more expense gets charged to the landowner / lessor per the terms of the lease.  For instance the lease may pay a handsome sign on bonus and / or a higher royalty payout (15% or 18% or 20% etc.) but, then the landowner (per other terms in the lease) may be stuck for unknown amounts of post production costs and / or market enhancement costs and / or taxes (like the new Severance Tax rules they are discussing in the Ohio House of Representatives currently for instance) and / or something else.

    Signing on to a group that doesn't show you what lease they are negotiating has always been a problem with me.  After spending time signed up with a group, the lease they present to you finally may not be all that good and you may decide to decline anyway - then all that's happened is that you've spent time waiting around and now have to worry about breaking away from the agreement.  Maybe all it would take would be a letter to the group but maybe the group's leadership, since there's a deal on the table, will change their mind about the landowner walking away and decide to take it all to court.  Then maybe the landowner has to hire a lawyer to break the agreement.

    Also, thinking out loud here a little, if a so-called 'Major' wants a group's acreage, then they'll probably want acreage from the surrounding or isolated independent folks acreage as well; and offer them the same deal the group is getting.  Still have worries then because at such time it will have boiled down to take the offer or get force pooled; which IMHO is a bad deal for the landowner should the landowner choose any of the two force pooling options that exist.  One option being a "participating owner" in the well and the other a "non-participating owner". A "participating owner" (is the worst of the two in my opinion) as the "participating owner" has to pay a share for developing the well (probably acreage pro-rated) but, I don't have any idea how much that would be. The "non-participating owner" option is a better deal in my opinion but still the only good things a force pooled "non-participating owner" gets, as far as I can tell, is non surface disturbance and royalty (but the royalty percentage and all other terms and conditions are subject to whatever the ODNR Chief sees as just and reasonable). 

    Seems to me, they've painted the landowner into a corner as things exist now - especially in way of the new force pooling rules.  Seems to me that landowners are taking a severe beating.  We landowners should (at least) petition for abolishment of the force pooling rules as they exist, restoring our rights of ownership and sales pertaining to our privately owned land and minerals if you ask me.

    It's truly a case of picking your own poison as things are now the way I see it. 

  • Joseph-Ohio

    Back to elliemae82 with a few spelling corrections :


    Right now we're not interested in committing our acreage to any group or organization that doesn't have a lease to offer and money to pay us.


    Some people may think / know otherwise but none of the groups in the area (as far as we know) have delivered.


    We're looking for a serious landowner cognizant / friendly lease offer; and see no value in tying up our land for a long term and for nothing.


    EGL as we understand is non-profit which may be noteworthy for those folks interested in signing up and committing to a group.


    I've also read elsewhere that if you don't like the deal they come up with you can walk without ramifications.


    Right now we're not interested in any of that ourselves.


    However, others may be.

  • Jackie

    I had to leave the meeting a little early so I didn't hear everything.  It was mostly a question and answer for the people who came.  F & M said you could back out. They were going to pass out examples of their lease but like I said I had to leave a little early so I didn't get a copy.  I will post here whenever I hear of another meeting so you can get the info first hand. 

  • Joseph-Ohio

    I think that would be very helpful Jackie.
  • Mark McGrail

    I can't understand why anyone would join a group.

    There is no leasing going on in Ashtabula (for the most part) and no group will bring in an E&P company.

    There are certain issues with Ashtabula that need to be addressed and until the economics change there will be few if any companies willing to put much money into leasing.

    However, there will come a time when a company or two will be willing to "dip their exploratory toe" into Ashtabula. If you are tied up with a group you could miss out.

    As I have always said about Ashtabula; your time will come you need to be patient. You can't force the issue.

  • Siegmund

  • Depolarized Farmer

    I'm thoroughly convinced that Beusa (via Blackridge) would not have come to Ashtabula were it not for the Magyar group.  Magyar created the opportunity that made it possible / easy for Beusa to commit.  Same goes for BP...  they would not have come to Trumbull except that ALOV paved the way by assembling such a large group of landowners who committed to stick together.  Groups are critical, especially when your land is not in a "must-have sweet-spot" like Ashtabula County.  To think you can "go it alone" is foolhearty.  And let me clarify that it's critical for a group to stick together.  A group where members can leave at any point will not get deals done.  It has no firm basis from which to negotiate.  A driller will not negotiate with "maybes".

     

    Although the timing may not be ripe yet for Ashtabula County, I believe (in my humble and independent opinion) that our best option remains Buckey Mineral (Bob Rea).  He has one of the best leases that drillers have actually agreed to (Chesapeake, Rex & BP), his group has a large amount of acreage already signed up and willing to wait, he is marketing acreage by the township, and his 2.75% fee is fair.  If we want to "get something going " in this already-drilled-like-swiss-cheese county, our most effective tool is to group up and stay grouped up.

  • Joseph-Ohio

    Buying into what I see as buying a pig in a poke is what I consider to be most foolish.
    Haven't found what I would consider to be a a valid reason to change my mind on that score yet.
    Don't think I ever will.
    But, that's just my personal and most humble opinion and perspective.
  • Joseph-Ohio

    Depolarized Farmer,

    I haven't seen a copy of the BMD lease being promoted - have you ? ?

    A few more questions about the lease (and any other leases being promoted by landowner groups like BMD) follow :


    Does it have a clause option that limits 'Surface Disruption' ? ?

    Does it include clauses that make the landowner liable to pay any 'Production / Post Production' costs ? ?

    Does it include clauses that make the landowner liable to pay any 'Market Enhancement' costs ? ?

    Does it include clauses that make the landowner liable to pay any 'Real Estate / Severance Taxes and / or Tax Increases' wrought by a Gas & Oil Well development ? ?

    Can a landowner walk away from it if they don't like it once they've finally seen it without ramifications or hiring a lawyer and going to court ? ?

    What 'Sign On Bonus' and royalty percent are being promoted ? ?

    Do you know / can you say / can you share ? ?

    Do any landowners know / can they say / share ? ?

    We don't know - nor have we heard - nor have we read.

    Are we being 'foolhearty' to believe we should know answers to those questions and more before we commit to anything by signature ? ?

    We don't think so.

  • Bill Simpson

    Does anyone have information as to where the plant being built by Pinto is going to be located.

    Some articles say Ashtabula county and some say near Ashtabula County.

    Appreciate any constructive info on the Exact location.

  • Siegmund

    According to the article, it will be built on a 80 acre plot to the east of Ashtabula, Ohio. There is plenty of vacant industrial space around there.
  • Bill Simpson

    My question was does anyone have a Specific location where it will be built.

  • Jim Janson

    I don't have any inside information, but I know that there is only 1 80-acre parcel in the area the articles described.  It's on the south side of Lake Road across from the old power plants, east of Rte 11, north of the railroad tracks (has a spur going onto the property), and west of the Elkem plants.   About 11 years ago there were plans to put an ethanol production plant on the parcel; that was when the 80 acre parcel was created.  Those plans didn't pan out; hope this one does.

  • TM

    From what I read it supposed to be next door to the Praxair Oxygen Plant and near a neighboring decommissioned power plant.

  • elliemae82

    Anyone else having trouble posting on this site?

  • Joseph-Ohio

    Discussions and replies don't seem to be reporting.

  • elliemae82

    Thanks Joseph-Ohio, It's been pretty quiet on here.

  • elliemae82

    Anyone know if Blackridge still plans on drilling in Wayne township this spring? Or have they changed their minds again?

  • judy barrows

    Im getting ready to call Blackridge on Thursday...I spoke with someone in early Feb. and they said to call back end of March to get better details on whats happening next...

  • elliemae82

    Thanks Judy, hopefully we will get some good news.

  • judy barrows

    Hopefully...left a message for her to call..it took a few days the first time. If I don't hear back, I will call again Monday. I'll keep u posted...

  • Ed Ganelli

    Just heard from the landowner who owns the acreage that Beland was going to place their first well pad on that he can go ahead and plant it...no plans from Beland to drill any time soon

  • elliemae82

    Thanks Ed, now maybe we could just forget about anything happening her any time soon.

  • Ronaround

    I guess it never fails, always the bridesmaid-  never the bride....

  • Bill Simpson

    I posted the below comment under the Topic of Buckeye Mineral a while back which many of us Ashtabula-ites signed up with. Some of the verbiage probably applies to what Ed Ganelli posted.

    If there is anyone out there who has a valid, hard fact data answer as to why Ashtabula County does not appear to be in the running at this time or anytime soon please respond. No guessing or Obama type responses please.

    ..................................................................................................................................................................

    Excerpts from the BMD post....

    The commitments for Buckeye Mineral expired on 12/31/13.

    No e-Mails or printed material of any kind have been sent.

    Their last meeting was a long time ago and there was not really any substance to it or the previous ones before it. Since NELA and Wishgard have bailed out of Ashtabula County and BMD is staying behind the scenes I would give you an educated guess that our area will not see anything for a few long years.

    There are tons of shale info for Ashtabula County showing maps, graphs, charts, wiggly/squiggly lines and this and that for our area but most were done by guy's who play chess and smoke pipes. Kinda bald headed with dark black rimmed glasses. The old Mr Fisher type in High School Chemistry type of guy.

    Until multiple deep test wells are done in various parts/townships of Ashtabula County and a solid delivery package is created and done for transportation lines/plants etc everything will remain quiet. This alone is a mammoth feat both physically and monetarily.

    There are MILLIONAIRES out there, both US and Foreign who have made there millions/billions buy going in sight unseen and buying up mineral/gas/oil etc rights with the hope that down the road they multiply their investments many many times over.

    Now ask yourself this question. How many of the above folks have you heard or read about coming our way to spend a little portion of there mega bucks in Ashtabula County.

    If you add all the above up the bottom line appears to be a very very long wait.

    There is an upside to all of this nail biting and waiting and that is that I myself have learned so much about bad leases, bad wording, excellent wording, bad company and lawyer tactics and ton's of mistakes that current landowners have made when they signed. I learned about the good landowner groups and the ones that got shafted. I read more about lawsuits, and cry in your beer stories on this site that I do about folks retiring with big bucks or guys leaving their wife for a 19 year old with a nice monthly royalty check.

    They may have signed before we did but many are not eating the steak they expected seven days a week

    Maybe the wait is good at this point.