Just thought I would point out that a landman from a drilling company will always tell you to be patient. If the test wells turn out good then he wants to lease you. If the wells turn out bad, he didn't loose any out on any money. You may have.
My advice for anyone in Ashtabula County is to just be patient...offers now are up to 3000 and 17% (Tri-State, a flipper company) and 2500 and 17% (D & L Energy...a drilling company, but not equipped to deep-drill, so plan to JV with a larger O & G company). Neither lease is any good at all...
In addition, ALOV is supposed to be signing new members again with a deadline of today. Buckeye Minerals is also showing increasing interest in our area.
Knowing all of this, a bit of patience will most probably pay off relatively soon. This much interest, plus the extensive seismic graphing being done/already done in southern Ashtabula County looks a lot like exactly what had happened early in Ohio's southeastern counties...
I thought so also, but there was an ALOV meeting last night at Champion High School to sign up new members. I wasn't able to attend, so am waiting to see what it was about exactly on possibly the Trumbull section or for one of the ALOV members to message me about it...
From what I've been told the Trumbull County group is ALOV's last signing. People where I live (Salem), who have not signed a lease yet, now have to go through Buckeye Mineral. Buckeye has a flat fee at 2 1/2% of the sign on bonus....or maybe 2 3/4%. If you lease for 5,000/acre then their cut will be $125/acre.....hence you will get $4,875/acre. I happy to pay them that amount, especially in light of the lease that they have and the amount of acres they can use as leverage. It also gives them incentive to negotiate the highest price. I never expected Mr. Rea to keep ALOV going. He has already dedicated an immense amount of time without profit - most people aren't that generous with their time.......to be honest, I wouldn't be. Other companies, like Tri-State have a representative agree in where they will negotiate (on your behalf) with the drillers a predetermined minimum price that you want. They take a cut on the bonus AND the royalty, so you would be giving them MUCH more than you would give Buckeye. Not only that, their lease isn't as property owner friendly as Buckeye's lease.
Edward is right in saying that a bit of patience will pay off relatively soon. The seismic testing, Chesapeake vertical well, Buckeye's increasing interest, and "flip" companies are all good signs. I signed exactly one year ago (on the property where I reside outside of Salem) with a "flipper" called Trinity Land Development. They were out of Texas. Our group negotiated a pretty good lease, but our bonus was only 2,000/acre. Since, they sold all of their leases to Chesapeake. Of course, in hindsight it would have been best to wait as Chesapeake is now offering people in my area 5,800/acre and I believe ALOV's last 25,000 acre Mahoning/Columbiana County signing was for $5,800/acre.
Nothing worth talking about.......just waiting to see what the ALOV group gets in Trumbull County. I'm sure once the new year hits, the Trumbull group finalizes, and Chesapeake announces its JV things will pick up. Has anyone driven by the Chesapeake test well site on Pymatuning Lake Rd.(between Hall Rd. and Rt. 6) to see if they started any site prep?
Are there any groups started for the Jefferson, Pierpont, Richmond, Dorset area? As I mentioned before on other posts Wishgard has flooded this area and so far they have been the only ones to contact land owners in these areas. I do not want anything to do with them but would be interested in working with anyone else who is around our area. Does anyone know of any other outfits looking to sign leases in this area?
Also, has anyone out there heard of or worked with "washingtonpalawyer.com" I have spoken with someone who has signed up with them to do negotiations when someone wants to buy leases.
Dan...If and when you or anyone else has info on the possible Pierpont group forming please feel free to contact me. Pierpont is right down the road from me.
Would love to contact someone from this group or attend any of their meetings.
Hello all, Some of you may know me, some may not. I have a farm and am looking to lease, over in Bloomfield Twp, just south of the Ash./Trum. county line. Welcome
What Brad stated rings true. If your new to this site. Edward Ganelli and Finnbear are old hats around here so their advise is worth listening to, if you dont already know them, get to.
ALOV has negotiated Three good lease deals now and about to sign the Fourth group up, Northern Trumbull county.
Buckeye Mineral is headed up by Bob Rae, one and the same from ALOV. This makes him the TOP DOG as far as successful landowner groups, so as much as i dont like the idea of giving a percentage, 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 % of your Advance Lease Payment (Bonus Money), it is a small fee to pay for that much experience. If you go elsewhere, i would caution you to give ANYONE a percentage of royalty. This will be the thing you will come to regret if you do.
If you dont know it Mr. Adam Thomas is from Wishguard. This group does not buy leases, this group gets you to sign a marketing agreement giving them a period of time to find an interested party to buy up your lease at a profit to them, and they flip your lease (assignment) then pay you. If they cant find a buyer in the aloted time frame, you most likey get nothing.
If you wish to start your own group, there are some here who may help you and i think Edward may be one to speak with further about that.
Thanks for the insight James. Buckeye informed me that they may form a large group in Ashtabula, or they may represent smaller groups by region. In light of that I contacted the Village of Orwell to see if they have any plans to organize a group in Orwell Township. I know the village owns 200 acres adjacent to my property, so they would directly benefit from organizing a group. I would suggest other people inquire with the village to show them there is an interest. I am not from the area, so I wouldn't feel comfortable organizing a group as an "outsider" - it wouldn't be practical for me either. Perhaps there is a local to that area who might be interested in organizing a group - someone who knows the people and has their respect. Contiguous land is always more appealing to the drillers. This way the drillers do not have to fill in parcels at a latter time in order to create a 640 acre drilling unit. I'm sure this post will get someone from that area to step up to the plate, right? :) Buckeye has the signs up form, contract, and lease ready to go. Essentially all that needs done is talking to the people and gathering names. That is a small price to pay for the potential payoff, right? Buckeye Mineral headquarters is 10 minutes from my house and I would be happy to do anything I can as it relates to dealing with them, but a respected local from the Orwell area should be the one that heads this whole thing up.
Do you have name/number of someone I can contact from Buckeye. I am interested in joining a group of landowners from Ashtabula county. If anyone out there from the area who is member of a group can reply I would greatly appreciate it. Thank...Bill
I ditto you Craig. What is meant by "fair?" Does Mr Rea owe anything to anyone? There is an immense amount of research, communications, relationship building, etc. that has gone into the ALOV lease. Anyone is free to start their own group at any time, just don't expect someone to hand you "their work" for free. You will have to pay a small amount for a service rendered - that is free enterprise/capitalism and what America is about.....take it or leave it.
Hi Mark, Lets inject some logic and reason into this discussion. Mr. Rae began this body of work lets just say for the sake of argument, about two years ago, knowing just about as much about the O&G business as most of you did in the begining, ZIPPO.
This has been a journey for him and his staff of technical education, acclimation to how these Mega powerful entity's conduct business and relationship building.
Now they have done this, as far as we know, operating as a nonprofit. He has refined his skills and lease more with each deal i would assume.
Now he has more than fulfilled any sense of civic obligation and wishes to offer to continue to help, only now he has decided he needs to get paid, just as anyone else out there offering a comparable service. Just as anyone who heads out the door each morning, to earn his daily bread. His knowledge is superior and his fee is less. Whats the gripe.
Dont let bitter grapes or jealousy taint the water here.
Hi Mark, I understand your reasining here, i guess its not my place to say, i have no skin in the game. My bed is made, for now anyway. I am in the Northern Trumbull county ALOV group and awaiting what i hope is soon to be good news, If not i will make other arrangements.
I guess if you speak with him and dont like the deal you take your chances elsewhere, right.
Are you allowed to sign up for 2-3 groups who can/will represent your land?
If you do, are any of them subject to any of your upfront signing monies should you sign. I have property in Ashtabula County and the vultures will be circling.
I posted this in the Eastern Ashtabula Landowners Association thread, but wanted to be sure everyone in this forum has a chance to read it, so am reposting here. Make SURE that you talk with neighbors and let them know this information...it's important, and not everyone has access to any real information about the leasing boom that is just now hitting Ashtabula County.
ANYONE signing now with WishGard has made a HUGE mistake!!!! WishGard is nothing more than a company that makes their money flipping leases! They have a well-rehearsed, high-pressure sales pitch - the area is unproven (so far, basically true, but looks VERY promising!)...offers for acreage may go down to nothing (so far, also true)...BUT if you sign with WishGard you'll at least get SOMETHING if area proves to be crap (NOT AT ALL TRUE!!!!).
The simple truth is that signing with WishGard DOES NOT GUARANTEE PAYMENT if the area proves useless! Their lease they have you sign does NOT guarantee payment at the end of the 120 business days (more than 180 calender days) specified in the lease! If the area proves worthless and WishGard is unable to flip the leases, does anyone believe that they will still pay the landowner for what has become useless acreage? All they have to do is NOT pay - the lease will then be terminated for non-compliance and the landowner is right back to where they started. IF WishGard DOES pay, then they flipped the leases for more than they paid for the acreage - at this point, the landowner committed for far less than their acreage was worth!
WishGard DOES NOT HAVE PROFIT for the landowner as their goal - they have profit for themselves as the SOLE driving force behind their company! I see on here that Bob Rae and Buckeye Mineral have scheduled a meeting in Pierpont in the near future. Last I knew, his company now charges 2 3/4 percent of signing bonus to represent the landowner. I can't stress just how much better an option this is for landowners who want to have as little personal involvement process as they have to - a lease that is far, FAR better than the one they would tie into with WishGard, and someone who DOES have to have the landowner's best interests as an important goal. Buckeye Mineral makes more money based on how much the landowner signs for per acre - for each dollar more, Buckeye gets 2 3/4 percent of that dollar! If you sign with WishGard, the BEST you will ever see is 1600 or so an acre...if Buckeye negotiates a lease agreement for, lets say, 3000 per acre, then the landowner has to pay them 82.50 per acre, but still gets 2917.50 per acre. That's 1300+ dollars more than WishGard would have gotten them AND a lease that is far more landowner friendly!!!!
It's all common sense, basically...the landowner has something that most probably is worth something. WHY would anyone be willing to let somebody else control how that value is marketed? If you had a car you wanted to sell, would you really have someone else sell it for you and accept whatever they said they were able to get?
Again...remember, signing now with WishGard does NOT guarantee payment as they stress to landowners again and again!
Just to let you and others know...I did have an OIL/GAS Attorney look over the Wishgard lease and he said it was a standard lease and said there were NO red flags. He said it was a pretty standard lease. I am having him look over other leases as well before making a decision.
I also had an attorney look over the WishGard lease, Helen. Did your attorney point out to you that by signing that lease the landowner gives up ALL rights to terminating the lease through non-compliance with implied covenant laws? That the landowner MUST give up the right to have lease disputes heard in a court of law (which requires the arguments to be judged LEGALLY, as opposed standard industry practice)? There are MANY parts of the WishGard lease that are sub-par to an ALOV or SURE patterned lease...the WishGard lease may be industry standard, but it's NOT landowner friendly at all!
I'd bring it to another attorney for a second opinion...
Exactly, Mark! However, nearly as important as not signing away implied covenant rights is signing away the right to take disputes to court, having instead to take them to arbitration! Adam Thomas, a WishGard agent, posted this article:
in a different thread on this site. It was posted to show that ALOV has so far only signed with Chesapeake, and the article does show Chesapeake in an unfavorable light. However, the article ALSO shows the importance of being able to litigate in court! Arbitration needs not consider the disputed matter only on a legal basis, but can also take industry standards, past accepted practices, etc. into consideration. Can you IMAGINE being in the position the landowners in the article are if this was the case?
Does anyone know if any so called experimental wells have been dug in Eastern Ashtabula County? If so, does anyone know what the results possibly are? I was told that this is a pretty good indicator as to what pricing and roylalties may be down the road and whom to expect may be coming in.
ALOV was the original non-profit landowners association as organized by Bob Rea.
Buckeye Minerals Development is a for-profit business formed by Bob Rea to represent future land groups.
I was told they do not have a web page. Only an E-mail address (Buckeyshale@gmail.com). Their phone is 1-330-3277-3100. If you call them they can put down in their group. They were very noce and informative when I called them.
From what I have read and listened to I do not believe there is any "good" lease out there as the oil/gas companies always have the upper edge and the best corporate (New York heavy hitter types) lawyers. That's why they are billion dollar corporations and win about 99.9% of all the cases in court regarding leases, pollution, fraud, tax breaks and many more things that would land folks like us in prison for life. My suggestion is to find one that offers the land owners the most favorable protection, royalties etc. Check out some of the law firms who are now in the game and look at their leases. I believe "washingtonpalawyer.com" has a lease on their website that they drafted for the land owners in the groups they form and represent. Supposedly it seems to be a fairly decent one. Also, always have a good gas/oil attorney go thru it (I was told about $500.00 for a review). Stay away from ones who do divorces, DUI's, traffic accidents , civil , dog bites etc.
Look them up on the web and find one whose practice is 80% or more in oil and gas. They may be more expensive than the lawyer on the corner or second floor above a store but they have the best experience. Do not be afraid to look outside the area you live also.
I had never heard of Force Majeure until 11 months ago when the chemical company I work for used it world wide against their customers. The company had a legitimate reason because of a major break down in the production process. Must be a common practice with this type of industry. Might be nothing that can be done away with.
The Force Majeure clause is included in almost every Paid-Up Oil and Gas lease today. It covers the O&G Co. when circumstances beyond their control prevent them from moving forward with operations. Most of the ALOV lease language has been incorpotated in the landowner group leases that have been signed in SE OH since ALOV signed their first group earlier in 2011. What about the ALOV lease do you believe is unacceptable?
If and when royalties should come to a land owner is best to have an LLC type of setup or just have the monies sent directly to the owner. I was told that it may be a good thing to put the lease into an LLC setup both for protection and tax purposes. Is there anyone out there who has done this or has some suggestions. My wife and I are at early retirement age and would lose our social security if we have checks made out to ourselves. I would appreciate any and all information if anyone has done this or thought about it.
There is a loophole in that if they drill a shallow well then shut it in, at the end of the primary term, the lessor must notify the lessee that they are to commence with development of deeper depths. It then says that the lessee has 180 days to commence with said development at least to the extent of applying for a permit. Once they apply for the permit, they fulfill the contractual obligation and hold that acreage.
Why else would CHK keep leasing ground that they can't horizontally drill in the next 8-10 years? They can't if the pugh clauses are tight. Most people read the beginning of the clause and don't follow it because it is confusing.
I am sure that this is the reason that ALOV and Buckeye will not show leases they have actually signed. 99% of the people are not versed in this stuff well enough to catch these things (including alot of the local attorneys). That is why they have the masses vote on their leases with majority rules. Most people get blinded by up-front money and don't realize that the lease is the most important of all because without the proper wording than you will not see the royalties and that is where the huge money is!!!
I have read many posts on royalty percentages and up front payments for signing. Is there anyone out they who can say what they are receiving approximately per month for Trumbal/Mahoning county royalties?
Adam Thomas
Dec 9, 2011
Ed Ganelli
My advice for anyone in Ashtabula County is to just be patient...offers now are up to 3000 and 17% (Tri-State, a flipper company) and 2500 and 17% (D & L Energy...a drilling company, but not equipped to deep-drill, so plan to JV with a larger O & G company). Neither lease is any good at all...
In addition, ALOV is supposed to be signing new members again with a deadline of today. Buckeye Minerals is also showing increasing interest in our area.
Knowing all of this, a bit of patience will most probably pay off relatively soon. This much interest, plus the extensive seismic graphing being done/already done in southern Ashtabula County looks a lot like exactly what had happened early in Ohio's southeastern counties...
Dec 10, 2011
Finnbear
I thought Bob Rea's ALOV was done doing the freebie groups and his Buckeye Mineral Development was doing all the future groups?
Dec 10, 2011
Ed Ganelli
I thought so also, but there was an ALOV meeting last night at Champion High School to sign up new members. I wasn't able to attend, so am waiting to see what it was about exactly on possibly the Trumbull section or for one of the ALOV members to message me about it...
Dec 10, 2011
Bruce Beckwith
Finnbear
Thanks for setting up this group, our landowners need the information.
Dec 10, 2011
Brad
From what I've been told the Trumbull County group is ALOV's last signing. People where I live (Salem), who have not signed a lease yet, now have to go through Buckeye Mineral. Buckeye has a flat fee at 2 1/2% of the sign on bonus....or maybe 2 3/4%. If you lease for 5,000/acre then their cut will be $125/acre.....hence you will get $4,875/acre. I happy to pay them that amount, especially in light of the lease that they have and the amount of acres they can use as leverage. It also gives them incentive to negotiate the highest price. I never expected Mr. Rea to keep ALOV going. He has already dedicated an immense amount of time without profit - most people aren't that generous with their time.......to be honest, I wouldn't be. Other companies, like Tri-State have a representative agree in where they will negotiate (on your behalf) with the drillers a predetermined minimum price that you want. They take a cut on the bonus AND the royalty, so you would be giving them MUCH more than you would give Buckeye. Not only that, their lease isn't as property owner friendly as Buckeye's lease.
Edward is right in saying that a bit of patience will pay off relatively soon. The seismic testing, Chesapeake vertical well, Buckeye's increasing interest, and "flip" companies are all good signs. I signed exactly one year ago (on the property where I reside outside of Salem) with a "flipper" called Trinity Land Development. They were out of Texas. Our group negotiated a pretty good lease, but our bonus was only 2,000/acre. Since, they sold all of their leases to Chesapeake. Of course, in hindsight it would have been best to wait as Chesapeake is now offering people in my area 5,800/acre and I believe ALOV's last 25,000 acre Mahoning/Columbiana County signing was for $5,800/acre.
Dec 10, 2011
Dain Liard
Any offers worth talking about??
Dec 18, 2011
Brad
Nothing worth talking about.......just waiting to see what the ALOV group gets in Trumbull County. I'm sure once the new year hits, the Trumbull group finalizes, and Chesapeake announces its JV things will pick up. Has anyone driven by the Chesapeake test well site on Pymatuning Lake Rd.(between Hall Rd. and Rt. 6) to see if they started any site prep?
Dec 18, 2011
Bill Simpson
Are there any groups started for the Jefferson, Pierpont, Richmond, Dorset area? As I mentioned before on other posts Wishgard has flooded this area and so far they have been the only ones to contact land owners in these areas. I do not want anything to do with them but would be interested in working with anyone else who is around our area. Does anyone know of any other outfits looking to sign leases in this area?
Also, has anyone out there heard of or worked with "washingtonpalawyer.com" I have spoken with someone who has signed up with them to do negotiations when someone wants to buy leases.
Any and all information would be appreciated.
Thx
Dec 19, 2011
Dan
Theirs a group starting in the Pierpont area , might be a meeting in early January.
Dec 20, 2011
Bill Simpson
Would love to contact someone from this group or attend any of their meetings.
Thx
Bill
Dec 20, 2011
James Kerns
Hello all, Some of you may know me, some may not. I have a farm and am looking to lease, over in Bloomfield Twp, just south of the Ash./Trum. county line. Welcome
What Brad stated rings true. If your new to this site. Edward Ganelli and Finnbear are old hats around here so their advise is worth listening to, if you dont already know them, get to.
ALOV has negotiated Three good lease deals now and about to sign the Fourth group up, Northern Trumbull county.
Buckeye Mineral is headed up by Bob Rae, one and the same from ALOV. This makes him the TOP DOG as far as successful landowner groups, so as much as i dont like the idea of giving a percentage, 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 % of your Advance Lease Payment (Bonus Money), it is a small fee to pay for that much experience. If you go elsewhere, i would caution you to give ANYONE a percentage of royalty. This will be the thing you will come to regret if you do.
If you dont know it Mr. Adam Thomas is from Wishguard. This group does not buy leases, this group gets you to sign a marketing agreement giving them a period of time to find an interested party to buy up your lease at a profit to them, and they flip your lease (assignment) then pay you. If they cant find a buyer in the aloted time frame, you most likey get nothing.
If you wish to start your own group, there are some here who may help you and i think Edward may be one to speak with further about that.
I hope this will be of some help. Good Luck
Dec 21, 2011
James Kerns
caution you NOT to give percentage of Royalty.
Dec 21, 2011
Brad
Thanks for the insight James. Buckeye informed me that they may form a large group in Ashtabula, or they may represent smaller groups by region. In light of that I contacted the Village of Orwell to see if they have any plans to organize a group in Orwell Township. I know the village owns 200 acres adjacent to my property, so they would directly benefit from organizing a group. I would suggest other people inquire with the village to show them there is an interest. I am not from the area, so I wouldn't feel comfortable organizing a group as an "outsider" - it wouldn't be practical for me either. Perhaps there is a local to that area who might be interested in organizing a group - someone who knows the people and has their respect. Contiguous land is always more appealing to the drillers. This way the drillers do not have to fill in parcels at a latter time in order to create a 640 acre drilling unit. I'm sure this post will get someone from that area to step up to the plate, right? :) Buckeye has the signs up form, contract, and lease ready to go. Essentially all that needs done is talking to the people and gathering names. That is a small price to pay for the potential payoff, right? Buckeye Mineral headquarters is 10 minutes from my house and I would be happy to do anything I can as it relates to dealing with them, but a respected local from the Orwell area should be the one that heads this whole thing up.
Dec 21, 2011
Bill Simpson
Brad..
Do you have name/number of someone I can contact from Buckeye. I am interested in joining a group of landowners from Ashtabula county. If anyone out there from the area who is member of a group can reply I would greatly appreciate it. Thank...Bill
Dec 21, 2011
Brad
They can also be reached at 330-831-7740 or 330-337-3100. Their e-mail is buckeyeshale@gmail.com.
Dec 21, 2011
Craig Stull
Mark, You have not a clue. Try starting your own land owners group up!!
Dec 22, 2011
Brad
I ditto you Craig. What is meant by "fair?" Does Mr Rea owe anything to anyone? There is an immense amount of research, communications, relationship building, etc. that has gone into the ALOV lease. Anyone is free to start their own group at any time, just don't expect someone to hand you "their work" for free. You will have to pay a small amount for a service rendered - that is free enterprise/capitalism and what America is about.....take it or leave it.
Dec 22, 2011
James Kerns
Hi Mark, Lets inject some logic and reason into this discussion. Mr. Rae began this body of work lets just say for the sake of argument, about two years ago, knowing just about as much about the O&G business as most of you did in the begining, ZIPPO.
This has been a journey for him and his staff of technical education, acclimation to how these Mega powerful entity's conduct business and relationship building.
Now they have done this, as far as we know, operating as a nonprofit. He has refined his skills and lease more with each deal i would assume.
Now he has more than fulfilled any sense of civic obligation and wishes to offer to continue to help, only now he has decided he needs to get paid, just as anyone else out there offering a comparable service. Just as anyone who heads out the door each morning, to earn his daily bread. His knowledge is superior and his fee is less. Whats the gripe.
Dont let bitter grapes or jealousy taint the water here.
Dec 22, 2011
James Kerns
Hi Mark, I understand your reasining here, i guess its not my place to say, i have no skin in the game. My bed is made, for now anyway. I am in the Northern Trumbull county ALOV group and awaiting what i hope is soon to be good news, If not i will make other arrangements.
I guess if you speak with him and dont like the deal you take your chances elsewhere, right.
Dec 22, 2011
James Kerns
Reasoning, damn fingers are too large and clumsy sometimes
Dec 22, 2011
James Kerns
Starting to feel like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed s***.
Dec 23, 2011
Bill Simpson
If you do, are any of them subject to any of your upfront signing monies should you sign. I have property in Ashtabula County and the vultures will be circling.
Any advise/opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thx
Thx
Dec 24, 2011
shantycreekfarms
anyone on from ashtabula couty
Dec 29, 2011
Ed Ganelli
I posted this in the Eastern Ashtabula Landowners Association thread, but wanted to be sure everyone in this forum has a chance to read it, so am reposting here. Make SURE that you talk with neighbors and let them know this information...it's important, and not everyone has access to any real information about the leasing boom that is just now hitting Ashtabula County.
ANYONE signing now with WishGard has made a HUGE mistake!!!! WishGard is nothing more than a company that makes their money flipping leases! They have a well-rehearsed, high-pressure sales pitch - the area is unproven (so far, basically true, but looks VERY promising!)...offers for acreage may go down to nothing (so far, also true)...BUT if you sign with WishGard you'll at least get SOMETHING if area proves to be crap (NOT AT ALL TRUE!!!!).
The simple truth is that signing with WishGard DOES NOT GUARANTEE PAYMENT if the area proves useless! Their lease they have you sign does NOT guarantee payment at the end of the 120 business days (more than 180 calender days) specified in the lease! If the area proves worthless and WishGard is unable to flip the leases, does anyone believe that they will still pay the landowner for what has become useless acreage? All they have to do is NOT pay - the lease will then be terminated for non-compliance and the landowner is right back to where they started. IF WishGard DOES pay, then they flipped the leases for more than they paid for the acreage - at this point, the landowner committed for far less than their acreage was worth!
WishGard DOES NOT HAVE PROFIT for the landowner as their goal - they have profit for themselves as the SOLE driving force behind their company! I see on here that Bob Rae and Buckeye Mineral have scheduled a meeting in Pierpont in the near future. Last I knew, his company now charges 2 3/4 percent of signing bonus to represent the landowner. I can't stress just how much better an option this is for landowners who want to have as little personal involvement process as they have to - a lease that is far, FAR better than the one they would tie into with WishGard, and someone who DOES have to have the landowner's best interests as an important goal. Buckeye Mineral makes more money based on how much the landowner signs for per acre - for each dollar more, Buckeye gets 2 3/4 percent of that dollar! If you sign with WishGard, the BEST you will ever see is 1600 or so an acre...if Buckeye negotiates a lease agreement for, lets say, 3000 per acre, then the landowner has to pay them 82.50 per acre, but still gets 2917.50 per acre. That's 1300+ dollars more than WishGard would have gotten them AND a lease that is far more landowner friendly!!!!
It's all common sense, basically...the landowner has something that most probably is worth something. WHY would anyone be willing to let somebody else control how that value is marketed? If you had a car you wanted to sell, would you really have someone else sell it for you and accept whatever they said they were able to get?
Again...remember, signing now with WishGard does NOT guarantee payment as they stress to landowners again and again!
Dec 30, 2011
Helen
Just to let you and others know...I did have an OIL/GAS Attorney look over the Wishgard lease and he said it was a standard lease and said there were NO red flags. He said it was a pretty standard lease. I am having him look over other leases as well before making a decision.
Dec 30, 2011
Ed Ganelli
I also had an attorney look over the WishGard lease, Helen. Did your attorney point out to you that by signing that lease the landowner gives up ALL rights to terminating the lease through non-compliance with implied covenant laws? That the landowner MUST give up the right to have lease disputes heard in a court of law (which requires the arguments to be judged LEGALLY, as opposed standard industry practice)? There are MANY parts of the WishGard lease that are sub-par to an ALOV or SURE patterned lease...the WishGard lease may be industry standard, but it's NOT landowner friendly at all!
I'd bring it to another attorney for a second opinion...
Dec 30, 2011
Ed Ganelli
Exactly, Mark! However, nearly as important as not signing away implied covenant rights is signing away the right to take disputes to court, having instead to take them to arbitration! Adam Thomas, a WishGard agent, posted this article:
http://business-journal.com/reuters-investigates-chesapeakes-shells...
in a different thread on this site. It was posted to show that ALOV has so far only signed with Chesapeake, and the article does show Chesapeake in an unfavorable light. However, the article ALSO shows the importance of being able to litigate in court! Arbitration needs not consider the disputed matter only on a legal basis, but can also take industry standards, past accepted practices, etc. into consideration. Can you IMAGINE being in the position the landowners in the article are if this was the case?
Dec 30, 2011
Bill Simpson
Dec 30, 2011
shantycreekfarms
Bill
No drilling has been done in ashtabula county yet but as soon as the bore holes are done in parkman they will be moving rig to richmond twp.
Dec 30, 2011
shantycreekfarms
Does anyone know why ALOV changed there name to Buckeye Mineral.
Dec 30, 2011
Finnbear
Buckeye Minerals Development is a for-profit business formed by Bob Rea to represent future land groups.
Dec 30, 2011
shantycreekfarms
Thanks Finnbear Just wondered why,there are too many fly by night companies out there , not that they are but all need to watch there backs.
Dec 30, 2011
shantycreekfarms
Finnbear, have you contacted washingtonpalawyers at all.
Dec 30, 2011
Finnbear
Dec 30, 2011
shantycreekfarms
Is there a good link to get to Buckeye Mineral? All i can find dont seem like the same as what it should be.
Dec 30, 2011
Bill Simpson
Dec 30, 2011
shantycreekfarms
Thanks Bill , just thought i was not doing something wrong.
Dec 30, 2011
shantycreekfarms
See did it again, i meant right
Dec 30, 2011
shantycreekfarms
I read the lease and thought it was better than most i have seen, what didnt you like about it.
Dec 30, 2011
Finnbear
Dec 30, 2011
Bill Simpson
Look them up on the web and find one whose practice is 80% or more in oil and gas. They may be more expensive than the lawyer on the corner or second floor above a store but they have the best experience. Do not be afraid to look outside the area you live also.
Dec 31, 2011
Dan
I had never heard of Force Majeure until 11 months ago when the chemical company I work for used it world wide against their customers. The company had a legitimate reason because of a major break down in the production process. Must be a common practice with this type of industry. Might be nothing that can be done away with.
Dec 31, 2011
Finnbear
Dec 31, 2011
Bill Simpson
Jan 1, 2012
Adam Thomas
Jan 1, 2012
Finnbear
Which version of the ALOV lease are you referring to?
Jan 1, 2012
Adam Thomas
Why else would CHK keep leasing ground that they can't horizontally drill in the next 8-10 years? They can't if the pugh clauses are tight. Most people read the beginning of the clause and don't follow it because it is confusing.
I am sure that this is the reason that ALOV and Buckeye will not show leases they have actually signed. 99% of the people are not versed in this stuff well enough to catch these things (including alot of the local attorneys). That is why they have the masses vote on their leases with majority rules. Most people get blinded by up-front money and don't realize that the lease is the most important of all because without the proper wording than you will not see the royalties and that is where the huge money is!!!
Jan 1, 2012
shantycreekfarms
Boy it gets more confusing every day!!!!!
Jan 1, 2012
Bill Simpson
I would like to compare the geographical areas.
Jan 2, 2012