Looking for expert info on gas fired power plants

Having worked the construction field around power plants and steel mills. I know of for sure of 3 gas power plants. One is in Cheswick/ Springdale, Pa. One at South Bend intersections of 65 and 156 below Keystone power plant. One on Bruno Island on the river in Pittsburgh, Pa.

I have been told these plants that are not that old are not energy efficient (maybe built that way cheaper) That the are only used during peak demand as the fire up very quickly. That the cost per KW is high because the plants were built on the cheap.

Help me out here. How many more plants are around and can they be made more efficient? Let's fire them up and burn some cleaner gas. For crying out loud I read about gas wells in Texas that they got permits to burn off the gas just to get at the liquids how many other places are they doing this? Sell cheap to these gas power plants and get  liquids your after. WIN, WIN Cleaner power and drill sell gas here in the tri state area make our own power from our own gas. Plants are here now sitting idle. Fire them up

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Permalink Reply by pipe fitter on February 28, 2012 at 12:00pm

They need to build co-gen`s like the one in Dresden,Ohio,not peakers.

Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde on February 28, 2012 at 12:03pm
I have been to many a GTPPas you said the majority are peaking plants as the primary is still coal. With numerous coal burners being axed expect to see more GT working longer!
Permalink Reply by Jack F Stewart on February 28, 2012 at 12:12pm

First of all, most of the plants you are referring to were designed to fire coal, and maybe oil. Modern gas fired plants are now combined cycle, gas turbine plus a steam generator and steam turbine. These new gas fired plants have an efficiency up tp 60%. The coal- oil fired plants have an efficiency around 30-35%.

There are older non gas turbine power plants along the gulf coast and California that were designed for gas-oil, and have efficiencies around 30%. Most of these units have been taken out of service or act as peaking units when required.

The units you are referring to were not built on the cheap, They are much more expensive to build and operate than a gas only unit. You cannot make these older units more efficient.

Old boiler man from Babcock & Wilcox

Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde on February 28, 2012 at 1:58pm

The newest GT plant to go on line I believe is the one in Dresden Ohio 

http://www.gastopower.co.uk/index.php/projectsafinance/item/174-ep-...

Permalink Reply by Sawdust on February 28, 2012 at 4:50pm

Bill, I was talking to a friend last Friday whose husband works at Buckingham coal. You may know that they supplied the coal for the Dresden plant. She said the plant had to go back to coal, as the gas wasn't hot enough.

Might just be hearsay, but could be investigated.

Permalink Reply by pipe fitter on February 28, 2012 at 4:54pm

The units are gas fired turbines, not coal burners.

Permalink Reply by Dan Warfield on February 28, 2012 at 4:59pm

February 1, 2012

Fremont natural gas power plant begins operation

By LOU PENDLETON

In June 2011, the Bryan Board of Public Affairs voted to take 6 megawatts from the Fremont Energy Center project, a natural gas combined cycle facility jointly purchased by 86 American Municipal Power members. Last month, the plant began commercial operation and started providing power.

The 707-megawatt natural gas facility located in Fremont was not fully constructed when AMP purchased it from FirstEnergy in July 2011. AMP oversaw completion of the facility and commissioning.

The plant will supply intermediate power – Monday through Friday during the 16 highest demand hours. The facility also includes duct-firing that allows additional generation to be available during peak demand periods.

"Participation in the Fremont project fits in with our overall power supply strategy. With ownership, we can control our power supply costs. We won’t be as susceptible to market manipulation," said Steve Casebere, director of utilities. "This project also fills a need we had for intermediate power."

Casebere said the price of power from the plant is presently less than BMU’s average cost of power. With gas prices expected to remain low for some time, he said the Fremont plant will play a significant role in keeping electric rates steady.

“The plant will run whenever the price of power is cheaper than the market price. For example, in January the price of power from the plant was $6 less per megawatt than the market. We expect it to run quite a bit because the price for gas is low and AMP has already purchased blocks of natural gas.”

The Fremont facility utilizes two natural gas-fired turbine generators to produce electricity and the excess heat from the combustion process is used to generate additional electricity via specially designed steam turbines, called heat recovery steam generators. The process enhances the efficiency of electricity generation by capturing heat that would otherwise be wasted, so it is less impactful on the environment.

The Fremont plant also adds a feature known as “duct firing”. Gas burners are added to the heat recovery steam generator, increasing the quality of the steam, which translates into more electricity being generated by the steam turbines. Since this requires the use of additional natural gas, it is used in times of peak energy demand, allowing the unit to provide much needed peaking power.

Other local AMP members participating in the Fremont Energy Center are Edgerton, Holiday City, Montpelier, Napoleon and Pioneer.

Permalink Reply by Dan Warfield on February 28, 2012 at 5:01pm

I believe the Fremont plant was an original "Enron" project from several years ago.  Finally up and running after all that headache.

 

Permalink Reply by jeff k on February 28, 2012 at 5:10pm

Tenaska has/had 2 gas fired plants planned for construction in Pa. but no updated news is available since 2010...Anyone know what happened to these projects ?

http://www.tenaskawestmorelandproject.com/index.html

http://www.tenaskalebanonproject.com/pdf/LebanonCountyFact%20Sheet.pdf

Permalink Reply by Nut leesduh on February 28, 2012 at 5:17pm
The plants I'm talking about were built new.
Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde on February 28, 2012 at 6:32pm

With the WV Moundsville coal burner  shutting down there will be GT in its place  MY BET so they can hook into the grid with plenty of gas.

Permalink Reply by Dan Warfield on February 28, 2012 at 6:49pm

Going NG, oil, NGL or a combination of any or all three would be a good thing for the Moundsville operation.  I hope it comes to fruition someday soon.

The power industry is under coal contracts for years from now...possibly up to ten years in some cases.  Those "working" power plants are looking to the future, I am certain of it.  Its got to be a nightmare constantly dealing with the ever changing EPA regs. all the time.  I don't know how they do it?  Let's hope that large amounts of NG is in the mix for their future plans.  It would take huge investment to actually go "brick and morter" on a new modern NG facility and years to build a significant one at that (7 to 10 years with all the regulations today probably).  Retrofit of an operation will probably happen sooner?  Although, getting several of those new NG turbines lined up in an old factory/facility/shuttered steel mill in the Ohio Valley may be a good investment if you could sell the power into the grid at a profit?

I still think if the profit potential was there, as in return on investment, why wouldn't a group of landowners who are trying to make some interest $$ off of their royalties put together a "co-op energy group"?  Surely a tax savings and incentive... yes - no ???

 

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