Penn Land Owners

Sk Miller
That meeting sounds like nothing but a giant obstructionist party. I find it crazy that Mr. Gulla is still making the rounds since he has been telling tales about the whole thing since day one.
Hopefully no one takes that meeting seriously.

Tell me what your qualifications to denounce Ron Gulla who is not hiding lies like gas companies do. Are you one of those on the other side of the fence... HIDDLEN UNDER THE NAME OF RFS?
We can attest that Ron Gulla knows what he is talking about. Can you? If not, then please shut your mouth, stop protecting poisonous toxic chemicals which are in the water near natural gas drilling. We do not get a pay check to promote Ron Gulla. Who pays you?

SK MIller: I think that you need to tone down your rhetoric a little. Making scurrilous statements about someone's motives does not help any discussions and tends to point you out as a radical and lessens your ability to persuade or dissuade. The use of capital letters should be avoided as well.

I am not hidden. Look at the top of your browser and you will see my complete real name - Robin Fehrenbach Scala. I do not work for anyone but myself. I am disabled.
As a landowner in PA and NY I have spent the last two years on a daily basis learning about the natural gas business. Have you?
If you had, you would already know what kind of garbage will be fed to people at that meeting.
Honestly, we are way past the "fracking will kill people" stage now. Even the rabid obstructionists don't bother with that rhetoric anymore.

You got that right, James.
Love that global warming. I keep waiting for it but it just never comes!

To amplify on what Ruby_99 said - the incidents near Dimock that lead to all the bad press recently was the Cabot O&G company's sub-contractor Halliburton and the improper handing of frac-water-line hoses while configuring for a Frac Job.
That shut down Cabot for 14+ days and lead to vastly improved rules for handling of any water at a well site. Butler was the Water sub-contractor, and endorsed the improved rules.

Per the Well Explosion from Naturla Gas accumulation - we live in Coal Country, and there are a lot of hydrocarbons in the land under our houses. From time to time surface water conditions and the occasional minor earthquake cause things to shift a bit and Gas can be released from rock layers just a few hundrred feet down, having nothing directly to do with the Marcellus and the Drilling activity. They are in court to actually reach the most accurate conclusions based on the best evidence, and the historical record will be a part of that process I am sure.
Several professional Water Well drillers have spoken (that I have read anyway) that for the last 50+ years they would be drilling a residential well and hit a gas pocket. On other occasions they report that after 25+ years the local water vel drops and the well produces methane in the water, etc.
Historical context should replace hysterical comment sometime soon. We'll see what the Court results are.

Thank you Ron, very on target.
Local water well drillers are a fantastic source of information about the conditions present under the surface in a gas area. Several people I know have lately had extensive conversations with water drillers who run into as much gas as water in the field.
This, as you say, will become more commonly known very soon and the general public can then become educated instead of freaked out over nothing.
By the way, I am also dying to see how the court rules.

The Hancock Herald, Hancock, NY recently interviewed one of those old well drillers who echoed the point about hitting gas in water wells. The paper is not on line.

Here it is:

Hancock Herald, Hancock, NY

Local Water Well Driller offers insight into Marcellus shale drilling Process

2-10-2010

by Sally Zegers

Francis Tully of Poyntelle, Pa., a well driller for most of his life, weighed in recently on drilling for natural gas in the area, based on what he calls the science of the drilling process.
The Tully Drilling Company was started in 1928, by his father, Ben Tully. The elder Tully had been a Ford dealer in the area, during the era when new cars arrived in boxes by train, and the dealers put them together. “Dad excelled with people,” he says.
According to Francis, his father bought a brand new Ford truck and drove it to Ohio to have a drill rig mounted on it. The engine ran both the truck and then the drill rig, once the truck’s back wheels were hoisted off the ground. The Tullys, father Ben and sons Francis and Tom, were in the water well drilling business.
“It was a good business,” Francis said. He learned it from the ground up, literally, after being put to work after graduation in 1942.
He says he tried in vain to enter the Army, turned down seven times because of a large and distinctive hemangioma, or blood cyst, on his lower lip. “The doctors were afraid I’d get hit there and it would bleed heavily,” he says now. “I tried to tell them no one was getting that close to me.”
He returned home and his father “put me to work.” It was easy to learn everything about the process because Ben Tully “didn’t believe in doing a lot of hiring,” and Francis had to run five machines. At that time, he says, it took one to two weeks to drill a water well. With today’s technology, a well can be drilled in a few hours.
Tully Drilling was a major and well respected business in Wayne County for several decades, serving farmers and small businesspeople across the area. “Dad worked with all the farmers. Farmers’ credit was always good,” he says. He recalls his father getting a dozen Rhode Island Reds as partial payment on one job. Unfortunately, he forgot he already had a fighting rooster in the coop, and the family ate a lot of chicken for a while.
Over the years, according to Francis Tully, the company drilled 10,000 wells across several counties and two states, and he still has the files to prove it.
He says the phenomenon of “fracture zone seepage” is relatively common in Susquehanna and Wayne Counties and drillers often found natural gas while drilling for water. The internet features several videos of people “flaring” matches at water faucets in Susquehanna County, which is cited as evidence that gas drilling is damaging private water wells. However, drillers fifty years ago often found that they could flare matches at the faucets. According to Francis Tully, near Clifford, in Susquehanna County, “nearly every well in the area” has natural gas.
The gas is so much deeper underground that it’s under much higher pressure, and is forced up into the level that holds the water, he says. He expects the Equinunk area to be a hot spot for gas, based on his experience drilling wells.
The phenomenon occurs mainly on land near streams and the river. In New York State, he reports, when gas was encountered, it was a 50-50 split between natural gas or sulphur. “You had to be careful not to drill too deeply,” he said, “or you’d get sulphur.”
If you did drill too deep and got sulphur water, you had to plug that well and get the water from a more shallow spot in the drilled hole. To do that, he says, drillers took a piece of wood, and put a staple on top of it. They would cover the wood with burlap and put it down the well, below the spot where they wanted it, then yank it up with great force, lodging the wood at the spot where they wanted the well to be plugged. Then they poured concrete on top of the wooden plug.
Over the years he has encountered almost every situation possible in drilling water wells, from finding gas and even oil, and finding nothing - not even water. He drilled four wells on one property before he struck water for the homeowner. Being hired to find water, he points out, means you have to find water, meaning he only charged the homeowner for the one successful well, and ate the rest of the cost.
Tully Drilling also did a lot of business in Scranton, closing off old mines, and trying to put out mine fires. He’s proud of his family’s work in completely extinguishing one mine fire, a rare occurrence. He admits that it took 99,000 yards of sand, but they got it done.
He worked with geologists over the years, and “picked their brains,” picking up a lot of information on geology. He invented a drill that also takes core samples while drilling, and received a patent on it.
According to Francis Tully, the photographs he’s seen of the well that blew up in Dimock, Pa. on New Year’s Day 2009 lead him to believe that the tank itself blew up. He believes the switch froze in the on position, and it couldn’t switch off, allowing pressure to build and build until the tank blew apart. “Tanks do blow up,” he says, noting that he’s seen it happen many times over the 60 plus years he was in the business. A ccording to him, one tank came up through the floor of a living room, hit the ceiling and ended up on the divan. Fortunately, he says, the homeowner was out of the house at the time, which sounds like a classic understatement.
He believes drilling for natural gas should be “perfectly safe” as long the drillers use three layers of pipe, using surface casing down to 1,000 feet, then drilling 7,600 feet to the Marcellus Shale. Then you case it again and grout it.
The level at which water is found is relatively shallow. Drillers will bore through it with boreholes encased in steel and concrete, to protect the water supply, Tully points out. The Marcellus Shale is more than a mile underground.
The different levels of rock and shale in the earth are like “pages in a book,” he says. He points out that the layers of rock protect the water in the upper level. Fracturing, something water drillers have done for years with dynamite, only fractures the rock close to the well, not the thousands of feet above it.
He has traveled out to Titusville, Pa., to see the original site of oil drilling, and notes that there are “no tar paper shacks” in that area. “They’re prosperous,” he points out.
He considers the entire development of gas drilling an exciting topic. “I wish I was twenty years younger. I’d be drilling,” he says.
He sold the building that housed the business about two years ago, and retired, albeit reluctantly, but still travels around to drilling sites and talks with the men behind the machines. “I don’t have a college degree, so I’m an unpaid consultant,” he smiles.
He regrets junking the first Ford truck that Ben Tully used to start the business, but has accumulated few other regrets over a lifetime of work. Following the flood of 2006, many local wells in the area were underwater, but because of the materials used and the attention to detail, none of the Tully wells was contaminated. He is quietly proud that his reputation, and that of his family, is secure.

RFS: I know that the paper is not on-line, do you have an on-line subscription or a better way to get articles than I've found?

For SK Miller:

Spoiler Alert-

The secret is that there is no secret.

Sorry! Hope I didn't ruin it for you.

RFS:

We find it totally unbelievable to find individuals who go to every

extent possible to degrade an individual opposed to projecting a

worthwhile truth regarding fracturing chemicals, known poisons

injected underground, of which up to 70% can remain underground,

seeping into drinking water supplies or streams.

It is also amazing that we find no conversations objecting to the toxic

fracturing chemicals being injected into the Marcellus Shale subsurface

formations. There is no water testing done for fracturing chemicals,

therefore your water will never be safe, will it?

Perhaps leases should state - we want our water tested for fracturing

chemicals before drilling begins and after it is finished. We want to use

a state lab of our choice and have all the water testing paid for by the

gas company? That would be better use of your time than spending it

on degrading humans.

Please comment on what you know about fracturing chemicals, that is

our only focus.

The Clearville Natural Gas Meeting is about environmental education.

We knew pollution and fracturiing chemicals long before we knew Ron

Gulla. Sorry you read the invitation incorrectly and attacked the meeting

format which is strictly educational and focuses on fracturing chemicals.

We had educational meetings before we knew Ron Gulla. We never had

a meeting on water pollution.

We ran across Ron Gulla's story and found his story interesting in that

it matched the same experiences landowners found occurring here after

drilling commenced.

We know the heartaches and burdens fracturing chemicals brings with

them. We need to be with those who care about the environment and

have the same platform we have which is "Environmental Education and

Protection and Justice".

One needs to live through an experience in order to understand it.

Have you lived through horizontal drilling with fracturing chemicals in

your back yard or do you speak on the basis of opinions?

Do you wish to place us in your bad boy binders along with Ron Gulla,

who have first hand experiences, and know fracturing chemicals

pollute the environment? What is wrong with the truth and educating

others? We know we don't have many friends in Pennsylvania who cares

about the environment, at least it seems that way when we see a post

attacking a citizen who has experienced the loss of a farm and a

polluted fish pond near natural gas drilling. He knows what he did

wrong and like us, we believe he he desires to help educate others so

they don't make the same mistakes. You can never be sure fracturing

chemicals won't pollute your drinking water supplies. You can never

have water tests on over 500 chemicals to ensure your water is

safe to drink, or can you? Ban fracturing chemicals, use newer

technology to drill with which uses no chemicals.

In Clearville, PA, prewater tests and post water tests showed changes in

neighbors water supplies near natural gas drilling.

Before drilling, water was clean; we had no

soapsuds in water, black gook, brown water, rotten egg smelling water;

farmers who lost drinking water for cattle; cattle dying and other

animals; people had sores and their skin was red and burned

...then we found humans have other health issues known to be related

to fracturing chemicals. This all occurred in a specific time frame.

Fracturing chemical MSDS sheets show the toxic substances used in the

drilling process. We have videos to show the fracturing chemicals

being used at the well site spilling onto the surface. We could not

video the chemicals which remained in the subsurface and did not flow

back; facts which will not be uncovered and remain underground.

We know the environment is exposed to the hazards of fracturing drilling

chemicals which takes 24/7 oversight. Gas companies self

report most everything they do so how much polluttion is reported and

how accurate has the past history been? Do you have fracturing water

testing to prove it?

We could care less if Ron Gulla; if you; or anyone else makes billions

on any thing you choose to do.... but we care and get upset when

our community meeting is attacked by a personal grudge by those

we are trying to connect with and extend a helping hand.

Let's forget whatever grudges you have and focus on our meeting's

content: Environmental Education Natural Gas Drilling and what

landowners need to know to protect their water.

endocrinedisruption.com

http://www.earthworksaction.org/FracingDetails.cfm

We pray you will have peace one day with with your grudge.

There is peace for the soul for those who make the right decisions then

there is none for those who chose and invent fracturing

chemicals lies; keep them a secret under 2005 exemptions and legally

inject those poisons into the environment.


May God have mercy on those who despise..persecute and hate you.

Keep the binder of opinions you have acquired against Ron

Gulla. That binder of opinions won't kill you,

but fracturing chemicals, in your drinking water, can surely do the job.

Some of the concern over water contamination from hydraulic or hydro-fracturing (fracking) has reached hysterical pitch without doubt. However, there is something to be said for the old adage "Better safe than sorry." Chesapeake Energy acted wisely in making its own self-imposed limitation not to drill anywhere in the New York City watershed. Just as until recently we didn't realize the potential for developing shale gas before the various innovations cane along, such as 3-d seismic analysis, horizontal drilling, rig technology (walkers), fracing fluids, etc. that have made developing the Marcellus shale possible, we haven't fully plumbed the potential downsides to all of these technologies.

However, just as new technology has liberated this bountiful new found supply of energy--shale gas--most if not all of the downside risks of utilizing this resource as well can eventually be controlled through technological means.

It's important not to lose sight of the big picture, and dwell overly on a few localized problems that may have cropped up from time to time. There are always going to be issues that need to be addressed with any new development such as shale gas that potentially can power a country the size of the United States for the next 100 years. Let's not get wrapped around the axle about it. If there are problems, fix them, but, please, if someone's well or water tank blows up in Dimock or Houston, let's try to keep this in perspective.
Read more

Buckinghamgasman-
I was lucky enough to get the article from Kilgour, who actually went to the paper and got a hard copy there. He remembered reading it but had no other way to get it.

SK Miller-
You totally lost me with the binders.
But I have a feeling there is way too much hysteria going on in your group and a little less freaking out would help the educational process.

I hate to be repetitive but I'm just quoting what I said last April, and still believe:

"It was mentioned before, but it bears repeating - let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Not all drilling is bad, and it doesn't always yield bad results. Our water well is within 1000' of a gas well, has been tested by an independent agency twice, and is still pristine. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however drilling is a legal, highly regulated process. The DEP is not issuing permits to allow "an intrinsically contaminating process". It has been a good experience for us, even though we live less than three miles from the Carter Road incidents."

Concerning the statement:
"There is no water testing done for fracturing chemicals,therefore your water will never be safe, will it?",
here is a list of the items included in the first two tests test:
TSS
TDS
Iron
Magnesium
Aluminum
Strontium
Manganese
Barium
Sulfide
Chloride
MBAS
Oil and grease
Total coliform
Fecal coliform
Benzene
Toluene
Ethylbenzenes
m,p-Xylenes
o-Xylene
MTBE
pH
LEL
Ethane
iso-Butane
Methane
n-Butane
Propane

All were within acceptable limits.

We just had our water tested again over the weekend. As soon as the results come back I'll be glad to report them - either good or bad.

I wanted to add a voice of reason from one with first hand experience.

What do you know about MBAS? If there is zero MBAS in your water prior to drilling and it shows up after drilling...what is it?

I find it hard to believe that anyone would fail to see the big picture here. Yes, there is a potential for things to go wrong, well contamination, methane gas escape etc. Let's step back and look at the big picture here. Yes there are documented cases of these things happening that very well may be a result of hydro fracing or another part of the well drilling process. However, by a large large margin natural gas drilling and hydro fracing is a safe practice. There are several shale plays across the country that utilize hydro fracing. In each play there have been mistakes made by the gas companies. The key is to educate yourself as a landowner or neighbor and take the necessary steps to ensure your land and water are protected. This can be done by signing a protective lease agreement. Many of our neighbors in PA signed boiler plate leases with no protections and they are now paying the price. Natural gas exploration is a logical step in this nations energy future. The plus side far outweighs the negative. Why are we not hearing of all the horrific things hydro fracing has caused in the Barnette, Haynesville and other plays ? It's because they have been successful plays that have actually proved Hydro fracing to be sage and economical. Let's get educated, sign a protective lease, educate our neighbors, boost the nations economy, put people to work, end dependence on foriegn oil, reduce carbon emissions and stop funding terrorism by supplying middle eastern nations with the funds needed to support terrorists. It's a no brainer here people. Wake up !!! Believe it or not I'm a democrat...

I agree with John Reed. 50,000 people die in cars each year and there is no movement to ban automobiles or even reduce the speed limit which has been documented to save lives. People are willing to accept the risk because of the reward and realize that a huge number of auto trips don't result in death or even accidents.

Exactly. I want solid regulations, good inspectors and monitoring, pre and post water testing, and cooperation between the gas companies and all levels of government. There will be a few errors but overall we will be better off -- and wear those seat belts and check those brakes.

Let's ban current toxic fracturing drilling chemicals which are poisons injected into the subsurface of which up to 70 percent or more remain underground and do not flow back to the pits. Let's ask Congress to make gas companies use green chemicals which have no poisons in them which will escape unknowingly into drinking water supplies. Let's educate citizens in Texas and across the country who are known in past history of owning no computers and if they were fortunate enough have computers, they were not educated to surf the net to learn about the exempted toxic fracturing chemical substances being injected in the subsurface and staying underground which could be in their drinking water. (Chronic health issues such as cancer near drilling sites). Those great past historic pollution records look good across the country because those records were based on who reported the pollution and it wasn't well informed citizens who knew what fracturing chemicals were and knew how the drilling process worked. Citizens were ignorant as to what chemicals were being used in the drilling process and have recently started to learn about the 2005 exempted toxic chemicals. Let's educate the politicians (ask if they will give up the gas company campaign contributions) and put people back into government. Tell them not to believe the gas company lies and ban fracturing chemicals now being used which are known to toxic to humans, wildlife and aquatic life. Citizens aren't stupid, we know where the gas company records come from which others now base their trust in as they try to pull other citizens into their gas leasing sprees. Those gas company pollution reports are historically known to have been records based on companies who police themselves; do their own pollution reporting to the state agencies. Citizens are just beginning to get involved in those reports and learning they need to report pollution to get it on the record. Don't work with the gas company for a little tight lip money at the expense of toxic exposure. You can't buy clean air, water and soil, it remains there for hundreds of years. Let's get everyone educated, everyone watching the drilling process near the pits where hundreds of toxic chemicals are used. Watchdog citizens can help see if all those toxic chemicals go into the pit or onto the surface and THEN report it where it gets recorded for history records. Citizens who have already signed gas leases didn't have a clue toxic fracturing chemicals were going to be used in the drilling process, they likely didn't put any clauses in their gas leases to have their water pretested for fracturing chemicals or have post water testing done for fracturing chemicals or did they? Those landowners likely didn't know dep doesn't test their water for fracturing chemicals and they could be drinking water which can kill them. Citizens can help make gas companies be more careful with surface pollution: go watch near the pit and mud tanks...if you see foam or drill cuttings outside the pit, video tape it and report it to dep and make sure you report it to the new landowners hotline. The landowners hotline will pick up if DEP lets them off.
Unfortunately citizens cannot video the subsurface to see toxic chemicals injected which remain underground which can seep into drinking water supplies. Likely it would be impossible to test your water for over 500 toxic fracturing chemicals used in the drilling process and besides those chemicals are exempt. In sum when you hear others hail how great gas company pollution records have been in the past history, remember citizens years ago didn't know what fracturing chemicals; they didn't know how to recognize pollution near the pits; they didn't know they needed to report the pollution when water turned brown, black and suddenly smelled bad or they saw strange soapsuds in their streams. Citizens in the past merely complained to gas companies who never reported pollution to DEP, so who's record is past pollution reports on? Landowners need to report pollution to DEP and the new landoweners "Hotline". Government's corporate partners along with federal and state agencies have had their glorious pollution hidden based on corporate gas company candy coated lies because how many gas companies report pollution to DEP? Folks, you have worked hard for a good lease but you need to know that there is no such thing as a good lease as long as the industry continues to use toxic fracturing chemicals. Has a gas company told you how good they are at protecting the environment and look at our record? Did they say: "We don't pollute, look at what our gas company records show and we want you to know those records are based on our own reporting."
Citizens need to push Congress to: Ban toxic fracturing chemicals for an instant solution to pollution. Go with green drilling chemicals. Halliburton has mentioned they have green chemicals, why not use them? Does green mean no toxic chemicals? May we have the green list?
In the meantime ask Congress to push for solar energy, geothermal and other safe renewables. You can't buy clean air, water and soil.

Surfing the net is just as dangerous as talking to a neighbor who doe not know what he is talking about. You get the same bad information, but more of it and faster.

You always have those such as BuckinghamGasMan who puts blinders on citizens as they are led to the gas leasing post of sugar coated lies. Surf the subsurface after fracturing chemicals have been injected exposes you to more danger than the net. I'll take surfing the net where who have fracturing chemical proof, the fracturing chemicals pollute. Who are you trying to take down with you? I am not going there until all current fracturing chemicals are banned and replaced with safer technology. The fossil fuel isn't going anywhere but pollution remains.

SK, please share with us the number of fracing accidents, spills or anything else that directly resulted in the death or serious injury to someone other than a gas company employee. Then let's compare that number to the number of gas wells (horizontally drilled) that utilize hydrofracing and come up with a percentage. This percentage will be so small that it will completely discredit the points that you are trying to make. Give us substance not just words. I think you watch Planet Green too much. You need to see both sides of the story. Have you talked to any water testing companies to determine just how dangerous they feel hydro fracing fluids are ? I have. I am in a lan owner coalition and care very much about the saftey of my family and my neighbors. I suggest you do a little more research before you go spouting your ignorance.

The information everyone needs is already out there, posted by the companies who use the chemicals. The information is available from the DEP and also from each state where drilling has taken place.

However, the information I refer to is FACT. Not stories made up by crazy film makers like Josh Fox, or lies created by extremist obstructionist groups.

Every land owner who is interested in protecting their land has the ability to do so already. Right now. No more legislation is needed. No government interference is wanted. The only necessary element is using your brains. BEFORE you lease.

Thousands of us landowners in several states have been working at this for the last few years. Our job has been to separate fact from fiction, to learn all we can about how drilling happens and what we need to know. We have accomplished a lot and continue to learn every day.

The most important fact we learned regarding the environment is that the disaster stories are false and drilling has a very good record of safety.

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- State regulators are doing a good job overseeing a key natural gas production technique called hydrofracking and there's no evidence the process causes water contamination, a senior federal environment official said Monday.

Environmentalists and some lawmakers are pressing to give the Environmental Protection Agency federal oversight of the process, concerned that the drilling technique is contaminating water suppliers.

State regulators and the natural gas industry have been fighting against federal regulation, saying it could prevent or delay development of trillions of cubic feet of new resources.

The process, which injects water, sand and a small amount of chemicals into natural gas reservoirs under high pressure, has opened new deposits to development, dramatically expanding estimates for domestic production.

"I have no information that states aren't doing a good job already," Steve Heare, director of EPA's Drinking Water Protection Division said on the sidelines of a state regulators conference here. He also said despite claims by environmental organizations, he hadn't seen any documented cases that the hydro-fracking process was contaminating water supplies.

In its 2011 budget, the EPA is seeking to spend $4 million to study the environmental impacts of the process.

Bill Kappel, a U.S. Geological Survey official, said contamination of water supplies is more likely to happen as companies process the waste water from hydrofracking. In some instances, municipal water systems that treat the water have reported higher levels of heavy metals and radioactivity.

"Treatment of the [waste] water hasn't caught up with the hydro-fracking technology," Kappel said.

But both re-injection of that waste water and water treatment at the surface is already regulated by the federal government under the Safe Drinking Water and Clean Water Acts.

Although legislation in the House and Senate to bring greater federal oversight of the hydro-fracking process hasn't gained momentum, Heare said even if such proposals are approved, it wouldn't likely have a dramatic affect on regulation. States would still have the right under the Safe Drinking Water Act to use their own regulatory standards.

The National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners has pushed to maintain state's primacy in oversight of oil and gas activities.

Contrary to some press reports, Heare also noted that the EPA wasn't conducting any current investigations linking hydrofracking to water contaminations.

The key to the post below is the following statement: Bill Kappel, a U.S. Geological Survey official, said contamination of water supplies is more likely to happen as companies process the waste water from hydrofracking. In some instances, municipal water systems that treat the water have reported higher levels of heavy metals and radioactivity. Also, please note that the heavy metals and radio activity is not a result of the chemicals used in the process, but rather recovery of natural elements that exist at extreme depths below the surface of the earth. As you recover the fracking water you also recover radio active material and other elements that naturally exist at these depths.

Everyone here is so concerned about recovering the frack water, even though it resides well below any water tables a landowner will utilize. My well is very deep at 560 feet, but still over 5000 feet shallower than the Marcellus.

It absolutely can happen and I agree. However, to say that the chemicals used in the process are killing people and devestating the environment any more than a thousand other things is just plain absurd. I am confident I can list at least 100 things that companies do that are proven far more dangerous to humans and the environment. The industry should be monitered yes. Nobody here is denying that. But the over the top fanatic posts of SK Miller that you tend to agree with are just plain crazy and unwarranted. What about the fact that natural gas carbon emissions are 50% less than that of coal and 30% less than oil ? With all the power plants, automobiles etc... spewing out these emissions don't you think we should be far more concerned about the air we currently breath ? Again, let's look at the big picture.

I see we are being invaded by some hysterical groupies.
The only lashing out I see is being done by Sk and Marie.
However you only talk, talk talk but never listen. Typical for your type.
You pronounce doom and gloom but give no proof.
Want to know why? You have no proof.

And they also fail to realize that the faster we transition from foriegn oil dependence to utilizing our own natural resources the better off we wil be as a nation. It will boost the economy, put people to work and financially cripple terrorists nations that we currently fund by purchasing their oil. I agree with them that we should explore solar, water and wind as energy sources, however natural gas is the perfect stepping stone.

Among the most insane comments (with no logic or proof) are these:

"The government is going to take your land...because they can"
"Hydrofracking will kill everyone with toxic chemicals"
"Halliburton this and Halliburton that..."
"It will happen, you will see..."

Don't waste your breath on me, I am way ahead of you with this. There is absolutely NOTHING you could say that would make me believe you know what you are talking about. I have seen and heard too many just like you and they also had no facts or proof. Just lots of emotional screaming that we are supposed to listen to.

No thank you.

http://www.energyindepth.org/frac-fluid.pd This is a link to the chemicals used in the hydrofracking process. (thanks wikipedia) 350 million Americans use these same chemicals in every day life and dispose of them in a far less responsible manner than the gas companies do. Marie and SK you had better stop using these common household chemicals.

Marie,
As a paralegal for many years, I know a little about the law. You are barking up the wrong tree.
By the way, I don't work at all as I have said before. I have been disabled for five years now.
Again you have proven that you know nothing.

John,
You are correct that the chemicals used are commonly dumped right down the drains of every town in the US, and no one thinks twice about it. These same people are crying about the supposed horrors that will befall everyone if drilling happens, yet they continue to use natural gas to cook and heat their homes, and use electricity constantly (which is produced with natural gas or coal).
I don't see any of these concerned crazies shutting down the computer and going off the grid. Why is that?

Marie, In addition to Wikipedia, you may also want to check WikiMarcellus' page on Hydro-fracturing. It can help you put things into a clearer perspective. The issues involved are never simply a matter of black and white--gas companies and Haliburton bad, environmental activists good. Also, John Reed's point about lessening our dependence and that of our allies on foreign oil makes sense, does it not? --Tom

So you have solar panels? Did you convert your house to 12 volt or are you putting your power back into grid and getting credit for it? How many panels? What kind are they? Do you have pictures so that I can have some idea how to use them? What are they made of? Are the materials that they are made of safe? I'm looking for information. Can you help?

So Marie, you don't use fracking chemicals ? Do you use any of the following products regularly ? Acids- Helps dissolve minerals and
initiate fissure in rock (pre-fracture)-Common household use= Swimming pool cleaner,Sodium Chloride Allows a delayed break down of
the gel polymer chains- Common household use= Table Salt, N, n-Dimethyl formamide Prevents the corrosion of the pipe Used in pharmaceuticals, acrylic fibers and plastics, Borate salts Maintains fluid viscosity as temperature increases-Used in laundry detergents, hand
soaps and cosmetics, Guar gum Thickens the water to suspend the sand
Thickener used in cosmetics,baked goods, ice cream, toothpaste,Citric Acid Prevents precipitation of metal oxides Food additive; food and
beverages; lemon juice, Potassium chloride Creates a brine carrier !uid Low sodium table salt substitute, Ammonium bisulfite Removes oxygen from the water to protect the pipe from corrosion, used in Cosmetics, food and beverage processing, water treatment, Sodium or potassium carbonate Maintains the effectiveness of other components, such as crosslinkers used in Washing soda, detergents, soap, water softener, glass and ceramics, Proppant Allows the fissures to remain open
so the gas can escape, used in Drinking water filtration, play sand,
Ethylene glycol Prevents scale deposits in the pipe used in Automotive antifreeze, household cleansers, deicing, and caulk-Isopropanol Used to increase the viscosity of the fracture fluid used in Glass cleaner, antiperspirant, and hair color.

If you have used any of the following or done any of the following, you are guilty of using fracking chemicals: Lysol, swimming pool cleaner, table salt, platic cups, utensils or tupperware, laundry detergent, handsoaps or makeup, laxatice or candy, baked goods, icecream, toothpaste, sauces and sald dressings, lemon juice, household cleansers, antifreeze, caulk.

I believe you are guilty as charged as I am as well. Plus the 350 million other Amercians that use fracking fluid chemicals every day. Thanks again Wikipedia !!!!

Man, you people are making me tired! Seems to me each of you in this discussion has already made up his or her minds, so I don't see why you continue the argument. I suppose you could be doing worse things - like watching the Oscars. Maybe you should all get a room together, tap it and sell it on the internet. I wonder if there is a way to screen out certain discussions on this website so that dominating ones exhibiting little progress don't dominate my e-mails. Anyway, hope you people meet some new live friends soon.

Brian, these points that I am attempting to make are solid and they have substance. You have a choice to delete the emails you receive when a response is posted. The scare tactics being thrown around by the environmentalists need to be addressed with some substance. I feel it is part of my responsibility to pass on fact as I know it in order to educate those that are more easily swayed.

Brian-- You can also click the "Stop Following" link. That should eliminate futher unwanted emails. --Tom

Yeah, you guys are correct and I meant my comment with a sense of humor. Do you people direct your knowledge and comments to more public forums, such as newspaper editorial pages? Most of these readers have already made up their minds, but newspapers and radio stations might reach people who have not formed a solid, voting opinion yet. Tom, I probably will stop following this and keep my nose out of your fun.

Brian-- Actually, it would be a lot more fun if you stick around. Of course, one man's spam, is another one's pleasure.

I don't really think I have any point of view on most of these matters, or at least one that isn't subject to more or less instant revision. However, I do agree with several of the posters that there has been a lot of misinformation going around particularly regarding environmental concerns. One of the main reasons that I created WikiMarcellus was to better inform myself and to educate others. It is popular enough, but I'd like to see even more people take advantage of all the open source (free) info there. --Tom

Someone look at my post below and answer my questions who have solar panels installed... :) Enlighten me....I'm eager to know the questions I pose.

Tom, that's what the opposition does. Talk a bunch of Bee's wax and then dismiss the truth about anything they disagree with and run like a child. I appreciate all of your WikiMarcellus posts--some don't.

Brian, can you help me understand solar panels? Can you answer my questions?

To posters in favor of drilling: Please do not say that people shrilly screaming about fraccing fluids and who are anti-natural gas are "Environmentalists" -- that gives real environmentalists a bad name. It's like calling people in the KKK, "Conservatives". Most are just Nimbys and often paranoid. Presently company excluded, of course.

I'm sorry James, I did assume they weren't cost effective. I was really trying to get Marie to provide me with her information since she has solar panels at her house. : ) I wanted first hand experiences of how well they work--I'm betting their mostly useless in PA, but I could be wrong. All the more reason that I wanted her great insight on this subject.

I plan to put a wind mill up as soon as I get my BONUS CHECK from the nasty Oil and Gas companies. Hee hee hee... : ) The electricity is just going through the roof lately....Wonder why....

Hi Marie,

Your link is fine, but I'm interested in you answering the questions that I have. If you are such a proponent of Solar, tell us all about your experience. I'll ask again.

Did you convert your house to 12 volt or are you putting your power back into grid and getting credit for it? How many panels do you have? What kind are they? How much do you have invested so far? Do you have pictures that you can post? What are they made of? Are the materials and production of the panels safe in your opinion? What are the byproducts of the manufacture part that is not safe for the environment?

A link doesn't explain your experience.

Marie, I apologise if you think I am picking on you. That is not my intention. I simply feel that many of the points you are trying to make regarding natural gas drilling and the hydro fracking process (chemicals) are blown way out of proportion. There are much bigger fish to fry when it comes to our environment. If natural gas drilling and fracking is truly such a detriment to the environment we should have seen a lot more media coverage to this point. Hydro fracking has been done in the Barnett play and other plays for quite some time. I don't believe any of the leases signed in the Dimmock area had addendums for pre drilling water testing or post drilling water testing. WE as landowners should do our homework before signing anything and with legal aid ensure our land and water is protected. If we all signed boiler plate leases we would be inviting the kinds of things that are currently happening in Dimmock. Just my opinion. Remember the decisions you make with regard to gas leasing as well as your neighbors decisions can potentially help or hurt an entire community. Let's get educated and only sign leases once we feel comfortable that our lease agreement strikes a good balance between fair value and water and land protections. There are many land owner groups that hold meetings that discuss in detail the natural gas leasing process. I am in a group that has meetings monthly. We realize the importance of protecting our land and water. We have invited independent water testing companies to our meetings as part of the educational process. I am well aware of the chemicals used in the fracking process and the potential dangers involved and so is our entire group. I do feel that with the proper protections in our lease my entire community can benfit greatly from natural gas drilling. Will it be a perfect process absolutely not. However I do feel that benefits far outweigh the potential detriment.

The company in my area is doing pre drilling water testing for every household with a well within a one square mile radius. post drilling water tests will then be the norm. Not 100% sure of the timetable. If I am fortunate enough to be placed in a drilling unit I will also have an independent water testing company test prior to and after any drilling activity. This will give me a baseline. Something to go by in the event something happens.

James,

I can't get Marie to answer any questions about her solar experience. I think the following is fair game...Don't you?

Did you convert your house to 12 volt or are you putting your power back into grid and getting credit for it? How many panels do you have? What kind are they? How much do you have invested so far? Do you have pictures that you can post? What are they made of? Are the materials and production of the panels safe in your opinion? What are the byproducts of the manufacture part that is not safe for the environment?

A link doesn't explain your experience.