Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John & Paula Bostrom on June 2, 2015 at 12:44pm

W. K. go out to the Harrison County courthouse in Cadiz. Take the parcel numbers of the land in question. You can get these from your real estate tax forms sent out by the county. You can get copies of the alleged leases and any recorded action on them filed by gas and oil companies. If you aren't sure where to start; start with any leases mentioned on your deed. The ladies in the recorders office are very helpful...just let them know you are a citizen and not a minion from an oil company. There have been numerous transactions between companies for the leases in this area and consolidations and buying of different horizons of the strata...they (oil companies) are quite good at muddying the waters to keep their hands on obscurely held leases. Don't take their word for anything! Good luck! :)

Permalink Reply by w. k. chirpas on June 2, 2015 at 2:05pm

Thank you for the information.  I purchased mineral rights to a large tract of land in 2009.  M y deed does not refer to any leases.

Permalink Reply by Robert and Valorie Fulton on June 2, 2015 at 5:01pm

We DO have a Kimble lease. We have dealt with Jack! The Kimbles are crooks all the way around. We and a group in our area are dealing with them. They want it ALL---no dealing!! I will do without whatever my share would be, rather than give in to the crooks!! I wouldn't trust them if they said the sun will come up tomorrow!!!!! Check EVERYTHING out, legally!!!!!!! They are offering us $1000 an acre. He is trying to pressure you. We, basically, told them where to go!!!! Up to you, but we are taking our chances!!!! We WILL accept $1000 an acre if they give us 18.5% royalty. They don't want to budge on ANYTHING. So BYE- BYE!!!!

Permalink Reply by w. k. chirpas on June 2, 2015 at 9:42pm

Jack offered me a $1000 total for 20 acres.  I think what it comes down to is, if there is an old lease that holds my land buy production - let's see it. If it's valid they don't have to spend any money.  But if their is a lease (that didn't show up in my 2009 title search) and my land is subject to it where's my royalties?

This smells more like a scam!

Permalink Reply by Robert and Valorie Fulton on June 2, 2015 at 10:42pm

Our lease limits the unit size. We have to approve additional acreage per unit in order for them to be able to put a well on or under our land. That is the main change they want from us. But, they also wanted us to give up addendums we have that give us protection from them basically taking over our land.  I guess they think we are stupid!! Guess again!

Permalink Reply by Joe Bezel on June 2, 2015 at 11:44pm

A coal company tried to do the same thing to me last month.  I went to the courthouse as the Bostroms suggested, looked up the lease and found it was surrendered 20 years ago.  Go to the courthouse and see if this lease exists.  If it does, hire a good attorney and find out where your royalties are.  If it doesn't, walk one block to the county prosecuter's office and tell him your story.

Permalink Reply by w. k. chirpas on June 3, 2015 at 8:01am

From what I understand one of the issues that the Ohio Supreme Court will decide will determine under what conditions old leases are kept active.  It seems that this is being used as a fear tactic.  If the court's ruling favors this old lease then there is no need to for them to spend a thousand dollars now.  If the ruling does not favor them they want to have you pre obligated to sign a new lease with them.

For my part, they say they have an old lease well lets see it.  It should be no problem for Jack to provide that lease "as he said that he would". I now live in Tennessee and can not easily go to the court house.  But once again if they have a lease and are not hiding anything they should have no problem showing it to land owners. It would help their case unless there is something that favors the land owners, like maybe unpaid royalties!! 

Permalink Reply by Randy on June 3, 2015 at 5:14pm

wk,

After I purchased our property some 6 years ago, we too had a red hill lease.  I obtained a copy of the lease to find the language stated red hill must develop the property within a specified time limit or renew the lease.  Neither had occurred and I was able to secure a release.  You are on the right track to obtain a copy of the lease before you agree to anything.  I'd suggest you work with one of the local, reputable O&G attys to review the lease, secure a release (if language allows such) and negotiate a fair agreement.  Their eagerness may be an indication you are "in a position to improve your position".  Be patient and get the advice/assistance needed to secure a fair agreement.  Keep us posted!

Permalink Reply by w. k. chirpas on June 3, 2015 at 6:32pm

Thanks Randy,

I purchased ownership of minerals under a large tract of land in 2009.  At that time Premier Land Title company in Cadiz did the title search.  They cleared the title regarding ownership.  Red Hill's representative is also telling me that a portion of the mineral rights were reserved in a previous sale ......way back when.  I may have a bigger issue with Premier than anyone else.  

 I have a lease with CHK.  So if Red Hill is right he premier title and CHK both missed a reserved interest in some of my acreage. 

Has anyone else had problems with Premier?

Permalink Reply by White Tiger on June 3, 2015 at 10:18pm

Are there any wells on the property? Go to the ODNR web site and look for wells on the property and get the info off of it, name of well and production. Then go to the court house and look up the lease under the name on the well. Attached is the ODNR web site. http://oilandgas.ohiodnr.gov/well-information/oil-gas-well-locator

Permalink Reply by w. k. chirpas on June 4, 2015 at 12:04am

Thank you Ty,  The link that you provided is helpful.

Permalink Reply by Mark Anders on June 8, 2015 at 1:04pm

I worked in Harrison County with CHK for a good 2 years and was their top lease buyer. I'm very familiar with a "contingency lease" or Protection lease as we called it.

First off, I can tell you that Red Hill and Kimble aren't professional and lease in that "gray area." I interviewed with them and after meeting Keith Kimble and their atty (can't remember his name but he worked for Krugliak and Wilkins in Canton previously)

The issue with the old leases with RHDK is that they drilled a certain depth so you need to see the lease to see if you have a depth clause, if not move on to the next point. You need to go to the ODNR website and see which unit you are a part of and see if there was a time limit on who many wells they needed to drill or if there was a pugh clause. I can tell you that 99% of their leases have one or the other.

Example: They promised to drill 1 well per year and if they didn't meet that requirement then the lease of non drilled land becomes null and void.

Pugh clause example:  They promised to include X amount of a parcel in a unit and after the primary term expires anything that wasn't part of the unit was released. SO If you have 5 of your 20 acres in a unit then they can only hold the 5 acres.

They have some very specific language and we took advantage of that by leasing things they forgot about. I was very good at finding language in their leases that proved they didn't hold certain parts of parcels anymore.

My advice to you... DO NOT SIGN THAT LEASE. Contact me if you have any questions and I'll be more than willing to help sort things out for you.

Good luck.

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