As the price of gasoline keeps going up why have we not done any thing about it? CNG BI-Fuel convertings

Hello I wish to start a discussion on BI-Fuel CNG converting of our vehicles.

I hope I put it in the right place.

My name is Bob Mann and I have been doing CNG conversions here in Boston MA on VW and Audi cars for many years.

I find it so hard to believe with so much Natural Gas under our feet you are not looking at this more closely for you own fleets.

The first thing that comes to peoples minds is the EPA says you cannot do this.  I say have you ever read this document in your own two hands?

I would like to be of some help to inform people of what really works on today’s trucks and cars.

Bob Mann

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Permalink Reply by Chuck Gerbe on February 23, 2012 at 6:04am
Please keep me in the loop.
I own an industrial compressor distributor in Pittsburgh PA and want to add CNG fueling stations to our product mix.
Who do you know that makes the compressors and systems you would recommend?

Chuck Gerbe
vice President
total Equipment Company
Www.totalequipment.com
Permalink Reply by familyman on February 23, 2012 at 4:16pm

chuck, feel free to contact me. we are sixty miles north of you and handle a large range of fueling stations. We are providing the requisite training to operators, maintenance contracts and internet based monitoring for fueling systems. I am surprised since you are an IR dealer that you dont work with PC McKenzie in Pittsburgh, but we are willing to partner with various entities. Please see my response to Mr Mann about my concerns about persons using well gas instead of pipeline gas . Even the difference of specific gravity of the various compositions effect the operation and design of the compressors.

Permalink Reply by Philip Brutz on February 23, 2012 at 6:19am

I have a 2002 Toyota pickup.  What would it take to convert it to Bi-fuel?

Permalink Reply by marilyn ascani on February 23, 2012 at 7:24am

Not being a geologist, I believe Brazil is trying to make a four-part compressor type system that will make natural gas liquid by adding steam.  Most likely a very costly process but with our dependence on foreign oil, something has to be done with the glut of natural gas.  Look at Quatar, they have become so rich because of their exports of gas, no taxes, no cost for education, free health care, just because they rely on their natural gas.  It cost billions for the conversion plants but something's got to be done here in the USA.

Permalink Reply by Bob Mann on February 23, 2012 at 8:16am

hello and thank you for the kind emails.

Here is one of my sites

http://mannpowersolutions.com/  This site is on my windturbines I invented.

I will up load more infomation on my CNG products and how to,s.

For the CNG convertions yes the Toyota are a very easy convetions for me.

With my home fueling station I pay 60 cents a GAL and still get 30+ MPG on CNG.

To Chuck there are few low cost sollutions for home fueling are out there.

Scuba filling stations are very good base pump system with a little work on a controller and software design. A market could be build around it to fill the home and business needs which would push the Bi-Fuel CNG conversion market forward.

Bob Mann

 

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Permalink Reply by Bob Mann on February 23, 2012 at 8:19am

hello and thank you for the kind emails.

Here is one of my sites

http://mannpowersolutions.com/  This site is on my windturbines I invented.

I will up load more infomation on my CNG products and how to,s.

For the CNG convertions yes the Toyota are a very easy convetions for me.

With my home fueling station I pay 60 cents a GAL and still get 30+ MPG on CNG.

To Chuck there are few low cost sollutions for home fueling are out there.

Scuba filling stations are very good base pump system with a little work on a controller and software design. A market could be build around it to fill the home and business needs which would push the Bi-Fuel CNG conversion market forward.

Bob Mann

Permalink Reply by familyman on February 23, 2012 at 4:08pm

Bob,

I am glad to hear you talk about some good small refilling units. As long as they have been modified from European use to USA legal, and they can be, mine are, they are an excellent solution. I was at a symposium today where Marathon technical reminded us of the hazards and all the codes to install inside a building, and i like to recommend that these are installed in safe locations outside. I sell them and they are very strong compared to the throw away units some people talk about 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Francis X. boyle on February 23, 2012 at 12:30pm

I tried to purchase a Honda CNG Civic about 3 years ago;  the dealer would not allow it happen.  I tried to purchase a Phili home unit, but Honda had pulled the rug on that Canadian Subsidarary. There are no PUBLIC access CNG stations in WV, nor vehicles available; even if you could convert a vehicle " where's the fuel infrastructure"? 

Permalink Reply by Bob Mann on February 23, 2012 at 2:11pm

You need to look out of the box.

Why would you buy a car that only uses one fuel CNG it is a drive to no were!!

There are many CNG and Bi-Fuel used cars out there you just have to look for them.

If you have Natural Gas at your home or business or your well whey shouldn’t you use it.

I guess you must be very happy to pay $4.00 plus a GAL for gasoline and it may climb even higher.

I will put it like this when I drive one of my CNG Bi-Fuel VW by a gasoline station I kind of smile than I start to laugh and a warm feeling comes over me life is good today. What would you pay to feel like that every day?

Bob Mann  

Permalink Reply by familyman on February 23, 2012 at 3:59pm

bob, i spoke to you when you were selling your VW, and though i totally admire you, i have to tell you, as an owner of a cng business, i do challenge you on the information that you teell people they dont have to have epa  or carb systems. Now as you told me, the people have come to your facility and tell you you cant do that, but you challenged them. Just because they didnt fine you doesnt mean its legal. There are increasing amount of applications, but it isnt worth the five thousand dollar type fines. I would happily share a conversation with you so that people may be educated. I have copies of the documents, and we talked about the possible exemptions, and i asked you to kindly send me a copy of it, i know it exists but it is extremely limited. After having been schooled by the folks at Lincoln and Luxfer and others, i can tell you there are strict rules, and there needs to be. In fact you and i could ask the EPA for a current opinion on this. My heartburn is that people will think that they can just install what they find, and no you can't. Its bad for the industry. I will say that our business is actually working to make changes, some with more regulations, and some to reduce regulations so that it is more affordable. A big problem i see is people thinking they can use well gas, some are even selling it. I won't support this behavior because it can kill this industry before it grows. Our manufacturers tell us that the equipment requires CH4 in the 90-92%purity range. What about the moisture, what about the fact that some of the other compounds do not have adequate compressibility, what about the fact that it produces moisture, What about the vaporization of oil as it goes through the compressor, bypassing the coalescing filters, but reliquifies at the fuel injectors. There are solutions to these problems, but they have to be handled honestly, and legally These are real factors. So if we are going to have a discussion, lets educate people, but lets be factual. I wont use my organic chemistry background, i will ask independent persons, lets ask the manufacturers, and lets ask DEP, DEC, EPA and CARB.

Permalink Reply by Bob Mann on February 23, 2012 at 4:51pm

There a few miss truth in your story here. I do believe there should be guild lines on this subject.

First why are these kits certified all over the world but not here in the USA??

Are we the cleanest air in the world because of the EPA? Or is the EPA a poan  of Big oil.

The EPAs job is the control cars emission off the assembly line.

I have read just about every document there has been written on the CNG deal.

To date the EPA has never fined someone on a CNG conversion in the USA to date.

So it is OK to go to war for oil and gasoline when we have solicitation for our need for fuel right under our feet.

At some point someone has to take the lead on this. This is the USA people bring on change most of the time for the good of most not just a few BIG OIL groups.

Look at Utah and how they handled there needs for CNG conversions this should be a State to State deal.

I will keep installing global certified CNG kits that are safe use USA certified hardware. In a safe and globally approved manner.

That lower the emissions below the standards set forth by the EPA for that vehicle.

We can look outside the box or you can bury our heads under the Middle East sand.

Bob Mann

 

Permalink Reply by familyman on February 23, 2012 at 5:40pm

well bob that is fine that you consider the conversions global certified , but unfortunately that is NOT what is legal.  I am not saying it should be this way, but it is reprehensible to suggest that  a person should install the systems in violation of the laws,in fact if someone disregards a set of laws i am not sure that they care enough about safety. I am glad you address that to date the EPA has never fined someone on a cng conversion in the usa to date,,,,because that in and of itself acknowledges that it is not legal.

I would like the EPA to relax many areas of this business. I also believe there are ways to accomplish this, and that is why my organization is actively seeking change.

For anyone interested in learning which systems are legal to install on your vehicle, there is a list on NGVAmerica. This list may not be 100% up to date, but its pretty good. The rules changed a little bit in april 2011, but it is prudent to follow it.

And for the record, when the fuel system is to be inspected, the inspector really would have no choice but to fail any illegally installed system.

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