Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom R on March 22, 2013 at 6:43am

I'm in PA too, some points in common with Dave and Frank Walker. Bought my place as a quiet location for retirement, had no real interest in leasing and pretty much ignored the hubbub for a few years. Suddenly started to get bombarded with calls from landmen, so started checking with folks nearby. Found one who had gotten copies of drilling application filings which included plat maps. Was outraged to see they showed one well passing just under a corner of my property and a second that came right up to my border line. Called the DEP to see if I had any options. Was told they could not drill if it actually passed under my land (but would not be too hard to guide the bit to skirt the corner) but they could come right up close without my having any say in the matter. Ended up negotiating a non-surface use lease, took a lower bonus payment for that, but got a royalty % I was satisfied with. To give an idea of how late in the development process I came to the table, a well was drilled (on the opposite side of the unit) and the unit declaration filed before my lease was officially recorded.

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Permalink Reply by Keith A Williams on March 22, 2013 at 2:57pm

Ken,

At 644 feet, and at that angle, I firmly believe it would not be drained.

Also remember that the drawing you see is a "DRILLING UNIT". They use it to make sure they have the necessary setbacks from properties and from other wells. That is not the "PRODUCTION UNIT". The production unit is declared at the court house and may  or may not include that landowner. It may also be a combination of several drilling units.

I just reread the notes. Look at note 4 on that drawing. It states basically what I just said.

Keith

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Permalink Reply by Utica Shale on March 23, 2013 at 4:21am

Keith,

 Just for example: Let's assume that drawing is the Production Unit ( it may or may not be ) and the frack goes out about 550' from the lateral. Then as the pressure reduces in the "fracked & drained" acres that leaves only about 100' of un-fracked shale between the production unit and surrounding unfracked arceage.

 

 My question is how likely is it that gas (and maybe thin oils) from the surrounding and unfracked acreage can migrate through that 100' "buffer" and into the Production Unit?

 

We know gas and oil can migrate because that is how the old style "POOLS" of gas and oil are created when overhead cap rock traps the gas and oil that has migrated.

 

 Also, in the very old / over-mature Utica shale all or most of the methane has already migrated out of the shale without it even being fracked.

 

 So, what is the MIGRATION  RATE through the 100' buffer of unfracked shale that exists between an unleased owner and the Production Unit ?

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on March 23, 2013 at 4:42am

RE: So, what is the MIGRATION  RATE through the 100' buffer of unfracked shale that exists between an unleased owner and the Production Unit ?"

An interesting question. But one that might be as difficult to answer as "How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?).

We know that some of the hydrocarbons have migrated out. The vertical pressure gradient would encourage such migration.

The very low permeability of the shales discourages such migration.

Furthermore, we know that a large percentage of the generated hydrocarbons are still present within the shales; where they have long been trapped (when not destroyed by being thermally over mature).

We know that they have had several hundred million years over which they could have migrated out (yet most have not migrated out). 

I would argue that, where the shales are not fractured (natural fractures or man induced), hydrocarbon migration within the shales would be very slow (perhaps so slow as to be meaningless when measured against human lifespans).

 

RE: "in the very old / over-mature Utica shale all or most of the methane has already migrated out of the shale without it even being fracked"

It may be that where over-mature (due to thermal history), the methane has not migrated out ... rather it has been destroyed, the "C" part of CH4 reduced to elemental carbon.

 

All IMHO,

                  JS

 

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Permalink Reply by Keith A Williams on March 23, 2013 at 12:59pm

Utica Shale,

I do not have any hard evidence, but after reading

Hydraulic Fracturing 101

Provided by  Joe Corrado on Tuesday, It states that shale is less porous that Concrete (bottom page 3). That really made me think about Migration rates through unfractured areas.

Also seams that most of the companies are spacing the fracks along their well bores at closer spacing (like every 250 to 300 ft) and I can not believe that they would spend more money than they must.

Keith

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen on March 23, 2013 at 8:08am

Hi Ken,

Maybe the part of the curve in the drilling unit is grazing his land and he's a tiny bit in? I do not remember seeing his name listed though. US posted the link to the mineral owners for this well from the ODNR in feb I think. I'll go look and see.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on March 24, 2013 at 1:01am

Are you implying / inferring that there may be Drilling / Production Unit 'Cherry Picking Winners' / 'Cherry Picking Losers' occurring ? ? ? ? ! ! ! !

Shouldn't be allowed by any law / rule / ordinance if you ask me.

A horizontal lateral in your ground and / or reaching from beyond but within 500' of your property line should put you as landowner in the associated production unit and earning signing bonus and royalty money the way I see it.

All of course only IMHO.

 

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen on March 24, 2013 at 2:33am

Hi ken,

I looked it up, and for this unit drawing they are listed as one of the owners in the ODNR drawn unit.

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Permalink Reply by Dan on March 23, 2013 at 4:35am

Possibly soon the frac can be traced very accuratly.  Someday, if landowners ensure their future rights concerning drainage, one may get a surprise letter email they are in a unit because of unusual geologic conditions.  The reverse could someday exclude acres considered "undrained"?

https://www.innocentive.com/ar/challenge/9933142

Locatable Proppant - Detection Underground

TAGS:

Physical Sciences, Engineering/Design, Chemistry, Ideation

AWARD: $40,000 USD  |  STATUS: Under Eval  |  ACTIVE SOLVERS: 210  |  POSTED: 9/28/12

Proppant is a granular material, typically natural sand or ceramic beads, that is injected into a well during hydraulic fracturing.  The purpose of the proppant is to ‘prop open’ the cracks or fractures created in the rock during the hydraulic fracturing process, thereby allowing the target oil or gas molecules to flow from the rock formation matrix into the created fracture pathways, into the wellbore, and hence to the surface. To reach the subsurface, the proppant is initially mixed with a carrier fluid, typically water, and then pumped down the wellbore into the formation at high pressure.  The Seeker desires to “locate” the proppant material at least once after it is injected into the fractures. A system is also needed to produce and detect a signal representative of the proppant distribution.

This is a two-phase or multi-step Ideation Challenge with a guaranteed award for more than one submitted solution. There is also potential for future collaboration or participation in a technology development project with the Seeker.

Source: InnoCentive      Challenge ID: 9933142

 

Challenge Overview

The production of hydrocarbons trapped in very low permeability subsurface formations requires man-made (induced) fractures to allow the molecules to reach the wellbore at an accelerated rate, compared to natural flow through the matrix.  To create the fractures, pumps at the surface inject a fluid plus a granular material, typically natural sand or ceramic beads, down through the wellbore and out into the rock formation. The granular material, called proppant, serves to prop open the dilated cracks and fractures after the pumping is completed to prevent their relaxation and re-closure.  The Seeker desires to “locate” the proppant material, at least once, after it is injected into the fractures. A system is also needed to produce and detect a signal representative of the proppant distribution.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on March 24, 2013 at 1:09am

Dan,

Can your post be interpretted as a warning that there are those who would like to / intend to legislate / make it legal to create Drilling / Production Unit 'Cherry Picking Winners' / 'Cherry Picking Losers' ? ? ? ? ! ! ! !

Shouldn't be allowed by any law / rule / ordinance if you ask me.

A horizontal lateral in your ground and / or reaching from beyond but within 500' of your property line should put you as landowner in the associated production unit and earning signing bonus and royalty money the way I see it.

All of course only IMHO.

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Permalink Reply by Dan on March 24, 2013 at 2:20am

I would guess there are some O&G producers that would cherry pick any way they could if possible.  The point is, soon it looks like a natural or hydrulically produced fractures will be tracable during or after fracing.  Should the state be privy to this info in the future?  If so, if a landowner outside of a unit is being drained due to a large naturally occuring fracture, should they be compensated?  Or, should O&G have this knowledge proprietory forever? 

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Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on March 24, 2013 at 2:43am

Dan,

 

I hold the opinion that if a large naturally occuring and / or hydraulically induced fracture is known to exist, that the landowner's ground where such fracture occurs should be included and / or added to and portion of the drilling / production unit.

If the exact location of the resource is predictable/  traceable it should be included.

Conversely, I don't agree that a landowner's ground should be excluded from signing bonus / royalty payments because someone or some 'body' rules that the resource being recovered appears to be coming from another source than the lands included in the drilling unit - as those landowners are bargaining / selling the recovery rights and tolerating the horizontal lateral(s) and / or even perhaps a wellhead on / in their ground. 

Also, I'm of the opinion that the O & G companies need to make these kind of disclosures public as soon as they become evident.

All once again only IMHO.

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