Compressed Natural Gas for vehicles

Does anyone know if these gas companies and subcontractors use any compressed natural gas vehicles or do they just fill up with foreign diesel fuel?  US has Boon Pickens and corporations asking for governmental support and funding for CNG, one has to ask where the leadership is on this topic.

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Permalink Reply by Bill F. on May 14, 2012 at 5:26am

Nat Gas burns cleaner Maybe) but is dirty to produce .Compressors produce the Ozone (Genius) and also leaks from wells .The more wells going in the more compressors to bring it up to pressure .I am not a chemist but I am No fool dude.Engineering and development was how I earned my living and retired at 62 (very comfortably too...with the increase in comprssor stations needed for Nat gas cities are not the only point of ozone creation.If so why is the DEP of PA putting in monitoring station near compressor locations .I have spoken to the director of DEP Air quality on this her is Joyce ebbs ....call her Genius !

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on May 14, 2012 at 6:09am

RE: "with the increase in comprssor stations needed for Nat gas cities are not the only point of ozone creation"

Compressors run on Clean Green Natural Gas, producing no Ozone.

RE: "Nat Gas burns cleaner Maybe) but is dirty to produce ."

What evidence do you have that Clean Green Natural Gas is dirty to produce? None it would seem, or you would have produced it by now.

RE: "I have spoken to the director of DEP Air quality on this her is Joyce ebbs" 

Could you translate that jibberish into English?

RE: "I am not a chemist "

That is obvious; perhaps you shoiuld leave such matters to the Big Boys and Girls" who understand such matters.

RE: "I am No fool dude"

I am afraid that by virtue of the content of your posts, you are also losing have already lost that argument.

OBTW, what do you call a person who does not want drilling for Clean Green Natural Gas yet goes ahead and leases his land for the purpose of drilling for Clean Green Natural Gas?

Do you call them a hypocrite?

Do you call them a fool?

Do you call them a foolish hypocrite?

Do you call them a hypocritical fool?

Or, do you call them all of the above?

Intelligent people look before they leap; fools leap before they look.

Here is a toast to Ozone free Clean Green Natural Gas; a nice Scotch with a splash of Dimmock Water.

All IMHO,

               JS

Permalink Reply by Bill F. on May 14, 2012 at 6:43am

Even Compressors that run on Nat gas produce emissions (VOC,NOX etc) .Joyce Ebbs is the Director of PA DEP Air Quality in Harrisburg I spoke to her about 2 months ago .They want to place air quality monitors west of Towanda because there will be 8 compressors in the surrounding area9It will monitor Oxygen and Ozone ) call her I can give you the number if you want .I tried to fine out more so I could possibly have one placed where I am.I was told PA doesn't have to resources to place them everywhere .I have attended quite a few public comments sessions and have spoken at 3 of them! Yes I admit that at the time (back in 2009 ) when the lease was signed I did not know much about how Horizontal Nat gas drilling would take over the area and create disruption and pollution  .Since then I have educated myself quite a bit !You don't have to be a chemist to understand the principles of pollution .It seems you are the type of guy that always wants the last word and enjoys smart mouthing anyone who conflicts with what you want to here so you can get praise from the other people here ,so OK get your laughs ,but you aren't as smart as you pretend to be either !Also if you want that scotch and Dimock lemonade I can arrange that too and I'll buy....!

Permalink Reply by BA on May 13, 2012 at 6:55pm

You are correct, and its high reactivity is exactly why it doesn't survive long in the environment. The 27 hr half life I mentioned is under ideal circumstances i.e. room temp, closed container with no contaminants. However, in atmospheric conditions, with heat, and airborne contaminants, half life decreases dramatically from 27 hours, to well under an hour, and minutes in many circumstances. Heat breaks down ozone very quickly. Exceedingly high levels of ozone would have to be continually produced to maintain any appreciable levels in a rural outdoor environment, especially where any kind of wind is present. Lightning strikes are about the only thing that come to mind where one could source a high amount of ground level ozone over a very short period of time in a high latitude rural area. Even so, it dissipates quickly.

Not to be facetious, but how is this large volume of ozone being created by gas drilling?

When I deodorize a room, or several rooms at once, I can go back into that area within about two to four hours after the generator has shut down, depending on soak time. The ozone is barely noticeable at that point. If it is, I open windows or turn up the heat. It just breaks down that fast.

There is a problem with this in Los Angeles because of uv light reacting with emissions. Surrounding topography lends itself to creating an inversion layer, which traps pollution, but that is a unique situation. Ozone has been given a bad reputation, and attention has shifted to blame the ozone component in smog, rather than the actual car exhaust. Even so, LA and other populated areas could benefit from a cleaner energy source for cars.

Permalink Reply by Bill F. on May 14, 2012 at 4:19am

" Exceedingly high levels of ozone would have to be continually produced to maintain any appreciable levels in a rural outdoor environment, especially where any kind of wind is present " ....yep continuous like Nat gas compressor stations do...your not as smart as you think you are..!

Permalink Reply by BA on May 14, 2012 at 7:43am

"...your not as smart as you think you are..!"

Nice psychological attempt to get me out of the conversation. Fortunately, I have enough sense not to fall for it. Nice try, though.

Permalink Reply by familyman on May 14, 2012 at 8:37am

Actually, natural gas motors seriously reduce pollutants, VOC's are volatile organic chemicals, most typically found in older automotive paints, gasoline exhausts and the like, they are not a problem, NOX are by definition dramtically reduced, sulphur is reduced to zero percent, As far as ozone, ozone is 03 compared to oxygen, which is 02. The problem with ozone is that it is more successful at competing with blood than 02 and hence it is dangerous to humans, however, it is so unstable that it dissipates very quickly. It is effective as a deodorizer because it attaches quickly to organic materials and then kills odors. The argument with ozone needs to be stated carefully because global warming is blamed for the dissipation of the ozone layer that protects the environment from uv radiation. Now, Mr William, lets throw into the equation the relationship of trees/forests and ozone, and the argument becomes even more silly. Please don't state that you are an engineer, we already know you are not a scientist, but since you claim to be an engineer, please provide your license number for verification that you are licensed, otherwise you may be committing a crime stating that you are a professional when you are not. I would be happy to forward any misrepresentations to law enforcement officers for enforcement. You are lucky that there are no laws against being dumb, because your arguments are not well founded in science.

Permalink Reply by Bill F. on May 14, 2012 at 9:01am

Forward anything you want .Nat gas engines still produce tons of pollution a year no matter what you try to tell me .If they didn't why did the DEP and the gas companies putting in the compressors say so .Many of these compressors will be running engines as high as 1750 HP  and produce many TPY.One compressor here will have 5 compressor engines  .It depends on HP as to output of compressors .Some of your comments just make me want to laugh my ass off...

Permalink Reply by familyman on May 14, 2012 at 11:12am

Look, everyone has listened to your ignorance and are tired of it. You stated that you were in engineering for years, put your money where your mouth is. I will bring my college transcripts and my licenses issued by the Pa DEP, and USEPA recognition as an expert, i will also provide documentation. Just prove you are an engineer with a PE degree license. I am pretty sure that you are a fraudulent incompetent that is bitter. I am tired of liars and incompetents that spew their garbage by association. I am on this website because i care about the environment, the peoples experiences and i have found that most people on here would quickly offer assistance to each other, and this forum is terrific because of these people. SHOW YOUR ENGINEER LICENSE, maybe you have a sanitation license. To set the record 100% straight the new CAFE standards were designed as people thought would reflect on a MPG of 54MPG, but according to EPA directly out of Washington at the Energy Summit 2012 the EPA explained that the 54MPG was on the basis to lower particulates to 6.5g/statute mile. Well, low and behold, the best engine to accomplish that is the natural gas engine that is soooo much better than that standard. You talk without any facts, that makes you uneducated, but i am more angry that you dare imply or state that you are an engineer because i dont hear one shred of sense coming out of you.

 

I DECIDED TO LOOK AT THE DEPT OF STATE WEBSITE, ENGINEERS, CLASSIFICATION ALL, AND YOU ARE NOT LICENSED AS AN ENGINEER, NOR WERE YOU EVER LICENSED IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF PA AS AN ENGINEER ACCORDING TO THEIR WEBSITE.

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on May 14, 2012 at 12:10pm

Familyman, I hate to correct you, but there are several types of engineers that do not need to be licensed in PA in order to pursue their trade: custodial engineer and un-degreed sanitation engineer.

I have a second cousin (on my wife's side) who delivers and services Porta-Potties; his business card lists him as being a sanitation engineer. He says that as long as engineer is all lower case, he can use that title (it is a lot more dignified that Septic Sucker or Honey Dipper).

The way Willie slings the crap around, i suspect that he might be one of those sanitation engineers.

All IMHO,

                JS

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on May 14, 2012 at 1:48pm

A primary source of NOx is from the burning of nitrogen rich fuels such as coal and oil (not Clean Green Natural Gas); the nitrogen contained within those fuels is converted to NOx during combustion. Catalytic Converters can significantly reduce emissions of NOx and VOCs. Clean Green Natural Gas can be a direct replacement for the NOx polluting fuels.

Another major source of NOx is Biogenic; nitrogen fixing plants significantly contribute to atmospheric NOx, through nitrogen fixation assisted by microorganisms within the soil.  The crops which most contribute to nitrogen fixation (NOx pollution) include members of the legume family – particularly commercial plantings of Soybeans, Clover and Alfalfa.

So which produces more NOx; compressors powered by Clean Green Natural Gas or those fields of Soybeans?

Exhaust recirculation, water injection and catalytic converters clean up the NOx and VOCs produced by internal combustion motors. How do you clean up the NOx produced by the fields of Soybeans?

The Soybeans that went into making your Tofu Turkey also pumped NOx into the atmosphere. With your concerns over NOx, perhaps your time would be better spent picketing your local field of Soybeans.

Willie, rather than losing sleep over nightmares about mono-nitrogen oxides, perhaps you should ask your friendly neighboring Dentist to give you a nice snort from his tank of nitrous oxide (N2O) …. You just might get a good laugh out of it.

 

All IMHO,

                    JS

Permalink Reply by Bill F. on May 14, 2012 at 10:20am

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