FERC controlled pipelines. What is your plan of attack?

With the Rover pipeline and a few others going in, there are going to be low ball offers made to landowners because of the protection FERC offers to these companies. I've heard about the crazy offers. They are so low that they make you sick to your stomach. Plus, they want to pay you for the land in the ROW as acreage. For example, if the total length of the ROW is 1500 feet. They will figure it out in acreage and pay you for that. Your 1500 foot ROW might be two total acres. Two acres to them might be worth 4000 or 5000 thousand dollars. How do you feel about receiving that little amount for a 1500 feet ROW??? I've dealt with AEP (American Electric Power) before and they try to pull the same BS. When they have FERC / public utility their side, then they try to screw the landowner royally. Comments?

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Permalink Reply by Bob Shaw on October 13, 2014 at 11:27pm

First, you should get representation by a lawyer experienced in Oil & Gas, Easement, etc. You can easily translate per/acre to per/foot. The pipeline company will offer an agreement that is heavily in their favor. Likely does not limit the size or number of pipelines, what material that can be transported in the pipeline, has no terms of abandonment, forbids building structures and roads, including gravel roads, over the ROW. Egress during and after construction likely will be very generally defined, meaning they can cross your unleased property however is convenient on that day, and not be responsible for repairing surface damage on the egress. Another area of concern is the construction phase, they will 'rent' additional property during construction, but probably will not specify the period of construction, meaning if they have an open trench for a year, the single 'rent' payment is all you will receive. With a FERC on the project, they will have the power of Imminent Domain, which means you can't simply refuse. Agreements also may not have a signature line for the Pipeline company, meaning you sign/agree but they don't, possibly giving them an out in honoring conditions in the future. You also will want a separate payment schedule, unless payment is due in total upon signing the agreement. If the pipeline bisects you property, you may want to consider damages related to future development. Damages seems to be the major portion of court ordered compensation.  The calculation is to improve the agreement in both conditions and dollars as much as possible, just short of the expense of them taking you to court to get the ROW. I have no idea what the correct price per foot/acre should be. On this site I have heard others mention prices that range from less than $10/foot to over $400/foot. The only offers I have seen are on the lower end of that range. I have been told by a trusted source of a non-FERC agreement that was accepted at $70/foot/pipeline in a three line deal ($210/ft) . Get a lawyer, first.

Permalink Reply by evan on October 14, 2014 at 11:40am

In regards to Bob's reply. I read on here not long ago that if dominant domain is on the company's side and you DON'T want the line then your better off refusing and making them take you to court. An attorney I've talked to said the landowners almost always end up with more money and a better deal.  In part it means that if they do take you to court and win its usually for ONE line.  If you simply gave In and signed their agreement your giving them the option to install more lines if they want.  Does this sound correct Bob. ?

Permalink Reply by Zack Jameson on October 14, 2014 at 3:47pm

Let's not forget, but as long as you negotiate with them it's not as though you are refusing them anything. Just stick to what you want and make them pay. I think eminent domain will be used when the landowner absolutely refuses. If a person negotiates that is reasonable. They can't push their selves onto your land and shove a paltry sum down your throat. I'm ready for them!

Permalink Reply by Bob Shaw on October 14, 2014 at 3:49pm

I don't really know, I am in the middle of one and I will tell you after. I think you are on the right track, that not accepting their initial offer is a good idea. It may be less expensive if you can get them to accept a compromise more in your favor and avoid the costs of going to court with representation, but if that does not produce the desired effect, you will probably have a better outcome going to court than accepting their initial offer. 

Permalink Reply by Alida Scheiderer on October 15, 2014 at 5:13am

ALL LAND IS HIGHLY VALUABLE. We often look at Market Value. Market Value is what one willing party is willing to pay a willing seller. If it is NEEDED, then the market value will be what it is worth to them to pay. FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Ohioans do not need to be raped and pimped by their Representatives, Senate, & the multi-billionaire Oil and Gas companies who are spear-heading this process. My brother had an acre at the time was worth $3,000 / acre. Sewer project went through. Instead of going along the outside of his 1 acre property they went through it giving him $500. The property today is worth about $15K but unsaleable because the sewer line goes right through it. It is undeveloped to this day because now a home can not be build unless the line is moved, which would cost thousands.  Your land in SE Ohio is worth $40K per acre (without gas). It is worth this in the city. Some hilly terrain may be worth $25K per acre. SOMEDAY, it will get developed and will be worth this and POSSIBLY MORE because ACREAGE will not EXIST, eaten up by cities. MAKING IT EVEN MORE VALUABLE. Commercial Acreage in Northern Ohio goes for $100K per acre. DO not sell yourselves short because you need CASH. They are taking advantage. Everyone should offer their property for sale at least $35,000 per acre.... make the billionaires pay for what you wont be able to sell or use later because of what they are doing!!! PS. Our property is currently for sale for $70,000 per acre. They will need the land for development... storefronts, industrial plants, housing developments... don't give it to them for FREE!! The least I would accept for a 1500' ROW is $100K.

RE: Court: You can REPRESENT yourself in court. These "criminals" should not be the runs running the show. It costs them about $5,000 - $7,000 just to do one case. Make sure you want well above this... like I said, if all of us give in for pennies, you will get pennies. They may try to make an excuse that then you wont get royalties... well, they won't get any $$ either and they have a lot more invested. DO NOT ACCEPT $5,000 per acre. A ROW ruins the future development use of your property. ONLY ACCEPT $25,000 per acre!! (AT THE LEAST)

Permalink Reply by mark on October 15, 2014 at 11:29pm

mornin alida

you at the very least have hit the nail on the head we agreed to a ROW agreement we took the total acreage involved  (property is un- developed by the way) and put are line in the sand at 35k an acre thats with a 2 pipeline installation and negotiated accordingly and we got it. TOOK along time but we persevered  stick to your guns educate yourself and be very careful   WELL SAID ALIDA   KUDO'S  mark

Permalink Reply by Alida Scheiderer on October 16, 2014 at 2:33am

Thank You Mark. I'm tired of seeing people get screwed over by these large corporations. Yes, $35K agreed. I did not want to go too high because people will laugh about it. I have my land for sale for 1.1 million right now and people are calling in from my area laughing at the realtor, thinking its funny. Well, it will be funny when I get it... I would possibly take less than $70K per acre, but you HAVE to figure in future development (which at $25K is still way low) but at least it is more reasonable than $5K per acre. Good luck! And don't let these companies tell you (or realtors) because your land no longer has its mineral oil and gas rights that it is worthless or not worth much. They are GROSSLY wrong and GROSSLY exaggerate. I wish everyone the best in  negotiating FAIR & REASONABLE amounts for the future of your children.

Mark, so glad you stuck to your guns to receive a reasonable offer!

Permalink Reply by Janice L. Hancharick on October 16, 2014 at 4:47am

Penn State's MCOR  has many publications available (FREE) regarding countless issues all relating to the growing oil/gas industries across the Marcellus and beyond.  Each raises many points that landowners need to be aware of before signing anything ... definitely included is one on pipelines.

Called Negotiating Pipeline Rights-of-Way in PA  it can be attained in pamphlet form or alternative media upon request.  Further info ... 814.865.6713 ... the Publication Distribution Center.

I'm not employed by Penn State but I've used their speakers, publications, and webinars to keep 4-County Landowners Group up-to-date.  Penn State is dedicated to keeping the public "in the loop" on all OGM matters. Our group would definitely not have grown to its current size of 235,000+ AC w/o the help of the info PSU offers.

Permalink Reply by mark on October 16, 2014 at 11:15pm

 mornin folks
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!! educate yourselves if you are using an attorney I would strongly suggest doing research on this site as janice said there are many tools you can use from penn state. ERIC CAMPS landowners terms to negotiate VERY GOOD info practically became my bible would reccomend that you get very familiar even if you are using an attorney there are alot of wanna-bes out there  good luck to everyone mark

p.s.  remember money is only a small part of this equation lots of safegards need to be addressed (addenda)

Permalink Reply by Booger on October 17, 2014 at 5:53am

goldman and braunstien out of Columbus..........they specialize in eminent domain.........they seem very legit, but they charge 25% of what they get above current offer...no money down.

Permalink Reply by R on October 18, 2014 at 11:17am

Sometimes even the best deal might not be nearly enough money for the related pain and suffering.http://www.texasobserver.org/keystone-xl-transcanada-crossing-line/

Permalink Reply by Don C on October 18, 2014 at 2:13pm

Good information R.    Be sure to get an attorney and let him deal directly with the land man, its worth it. 

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