They're baaaack
Northeast Ohio fracking ban backers to try again
December 28, 2013
Associated Press
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COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — Backers of a proposed ban on hydraulic fracturing in a northeast Ohio city say they're not giving up despite two defeats at the polls in 2013.
The proposed Community Bill of Rights in Youngstown lost in the May and November elections. The measure would have prohibited the high-pressure oil and gas drilling technique, also called fracking, inside city limits.
A spokeswoman says ban supporters in Youngstown and neighboring Niles are now gathering signatures for another ballot attempt in March 2014.
Spokeswoman and geologist Susie Beiersdorfer (BEERZ'-dohr-fuhr) said supporters believe they can win this time because public understanding of the issue is growing. She noted that voter support for the issue increased from spring to fall.
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Online:
Bill of Rights Committee: http://www.protectyoungstown.org
Ohio Oil and Gas Association: http://www.ooga.org
- See more at: http://www.morningjournalnews.com/page/content.detail/id/431662/Nor...
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Donald on -
GG
Thought you died. hadn't heard from you for awhile, keep posting. maby sometime I will be able to understand what you post.
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Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on
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Mark - let's talk the 'BIG picture'...what about the TransCanada or Keystone XL Pipeline?...IF we want to encourage integrated intercontinental G/O expansion...why did that get shot down? THAT is the real bothersome behemoth that should get OK'ed...
...but who knows - let's keep squabbling here in no-man's-land..ah, forget about it...there are bigger fish to fry...
As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. Maybe China would end up buying Youngstown (IF they could...)? That'll solve all the squabble problems...yak-kity, yak-kity, yak, yak, yak...and THAT was that.
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Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on
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GG,
It got shot down because the environmentalists (A-F) oppose it. The President has taken millions in donations from environmentalist organizations. He is paying them back by preventing the building of the XL pipeline.
Sad thing here is this; transporting items such as oil is done more efficiently and more safely by pipeline. Presently it is transported by train in that area. We just saw a train wreck that caused the evacuation of a whole town in ND.
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Permalink Reply by Trapper on
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Oh yeah.....she invokes frank dux sporadically.......I always thought they were one and the same. Bet I am right!
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Trapper...didn't you, nah...you weren't that pretty young thing riding in that naughty red slipper thing down in Key West now - by any chance were you? You bad, bad boy!
Just funnin' you! I ain't Frank - eggrolls & cheesheads ain't my thing. You are a funny one (funny WHAT, though?)...good one!
...light...light...another...less...enkindles...you know. Yep, yep, yep, shep! What a howl!
- by the way...you must like to loose, son...
What DID happen to Frank, anyway? Hope he's enjoyin' his eggrolls wher'er he may be....
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OK, just read this again - so they are wanting to prevent Fracking *INSIDE 'city limits' - WHAT exactly ARE/IS the 'city limits', to be more specific ***INSIDE CITY LIMITS***?
- is 'Campbell', Canfield? areas included inside the 'City Limits? How much area will be affected - how much 'CITY' vs. surrounding 'COUNTRY AREAS'? is there a map that can be viewed to see how much land - exact area wanting to be limited?...
...I know that Youngstown is not what it once was & that there is land that CAN have wells placed on them in the surrounding vicinity. I ALSO know that there is quite a bit of 'country land' in various directions - bringing to mind the question - WHY (if there IS so much land about to 'tap') is there a problem limiting 'inside city limits' drilling of wells needing to be Fracked?
Let them have their way. Why not? IF there truly are NO problems with Fracking techniques (or, as with all things - they get improved upon with experience...) - then the time will come in the future that THEY will be WANTING/begging to get their land mass area fracked.... so - What's the problem?
Let them (G/O Co.'s) build a provable group of wells elsewhere - around them...and watch what happens. It's only time. Youngstown could be so problematic (A-F/wise - potential 'water problems +++) that one must ponder WHY do they want to GO towards potential problems/trouble?
Leave them alone - there is plenty more to get involved with than with THAT headache...unless there's more to 'the overall picture' than is being let on...forget about it. WHY - for WHAT - why 'beat your head against a wall'?...go to the hills, to the country, G/O men...go & prosper. Leave them have their way on this...time will tell....
You'll figure it out - they'll figure it out...WHY would a drilling co. WANT to drill in a city environment like Youngstown? it can be dangerous - more people/ more potential problems...
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- OR are 'they' being the G/O Co.'s REALLY wanting access somehow, for whatever reasons... to the Mahoning River??? hmm...THAT could get quite interesting indeed...is THAT what is really going on here?...
As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. No worries. Everything will work it's way out - for better or worse. Like I said - let them have their head & when they see what they missed out on - they'll call the G/O Co.'s. THEN watch the hardball fireworks....
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Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on
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GG,
The city limits are the boundary lines separating Youngstown from surrounding municipalities and townships. So any change in the law only affects within the City limits. The anti shale people will tell you it's enforceable where ever they deem to apply it. But that's just nonsense.
The problem is it's based on misinformation and lies, second it's unconstitutional under both the state and federal constitutions so it is unenforceable. If the city were to try and enforce it there would be hundreds if not thousands of law suits brought against the city, forcing the city to expend precious tax payer dollars defending law suits that it could not win.
Let them have their way? The supporters of this effort are the minority, the majority has spoken at the polls twice. The majority supports shale development.
There are "provable" wells to use as examples, and their are no future issues with water problems.
Leave them alone? No way, the anti shale development effort is like a cancer. If left unattended it will spread. For example the same folks behind the Youngstown effort are now working in Niles.
No the spread of this misinformation has to be stopped wherever it pops up.
Yes there are problems associated with urban drilling. This is why you do not see a strong effort to drill in urban areas right now. But that does not mean that we should allow misinformation, rumor, hyperbole, and lies to become the basis of laws and regulations.
As for me, I will continue to shed the light of truth and the darkness of the misinformation spread by the anti shale crowd.
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Mark - *understood. I understand better now from your explanation. I AM of the mindset that you all are, I am only slightly familliar with the area, so was thinking primarily of the 'urban' Youngstown areas.
I understand your explanation of boundary lines - AND understand how people in 'general(?)' (pun intended) do try to 'round everything up together' & put it in the same barrel - that is wrong. My backoff. Pardon.
Right is right & wrong is wrong - and the the chips fall where they may. Absolute BEST to you all in this endeavor. As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. Spread the light & nobility will prevail. Meant no offense, Mark. *Keep on keepin' on. - understood.
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Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on
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GG,
None taken
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Mark - was thinking some more...and to go along - ADD to what you clearly stated goes that contrast from *Land of the FREE, HOME of the Brave... to slowly becoming - land of the need, home of the 'enslaved'...and
...KNOWLEDGE IS power. Resilience. Fortitude. Strength & Stamina. I know that there are problems that cloud both rhyme and reason - things CAN be improved on in all respects all the way around the board, indeed.
Sometimes one lacks strength & weakens - or is not knowledgable...neither is any for of excuse. The silly, off-the-cuff thought of China buying Youngstown someday could happen, although I hope not. - they'd probably change the name to 'Egg-foo-youngsTown. I hope you can laugh with that one - OR you could use it in your rhetoric concerning NOT ending up 'wearing egg' on Youngstown's faces IF missteps get made with the G/O... I know - stop. OK, but it IS funny!
Gotta' keep a light-heartedness - or your grow REALLY 'O-L-D'!
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This IS off the track of this discussion, but there are MANY people who you read on this GMS post that have land leases that get 'flipped'/ sold/ or otherwise - and they don't find out about it until 'after-the-fact'.
***Would there be a way to get through legislature something that will demand a G/O Co. to INFORM - in writing the landowner, matters that affect their land? - this should be ***NATIONWIDE - for ALL landowners. It shouldn't be a big deal.
Many individual landowners are ALREADY 'locked in' to their leases...and their leases getting sold or flipped may be an inevitable situation - over the courses of their lifetime. SO what would be the problem with passing a LAW that protects the LANDOWNER - if they aren't through older leases & such...just an interesting thought...
...let me know what could be possibly wrong with that - since you would know better than I. THAT may be something worth the hassle - on top of the other hassles you work with! (now wanted to bark up the wrong tree...)
Your thoughts? As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. Not trying to heap more wood on the fire, but this may be worth addressing - in spare time - or at least banter about.... Interesting
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Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on
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GG,
I like that ..home of the need...land of the enslaved" I feel enslaved to providing for those who demand everything for free just because they have a "need". I feel enslaved by politicians who care more about those who pay little or no taxes yet use 90% of government services, than they care about me and the others that work hard each day and pay the taxes. The taxes that fund the services that the non taxpayers use and waste.
I did chuckle at "Egg-Foo-Youngstown. But it is not unfathomable that Chinese investors could come to any city and become an influential force. The Japanese did it in the eighties and nineties.
Americans are a resilient bunch and once empowered with the truth (knowledge) they do the right thing and usually overcome obstacles.
The issue of flipping, assigning or selling leases should be addressed before a lease is signed. I doubt any post signature legislation could impose such a provision once a lease is signed and in place, it would be seen as an interference with a contract. It doesn't mean that some enterprising folks couldn't effectively lobby legislators and get something passed. I would question whether such legislation would stand the inevitable court challenges.
Unfortunately too many people do not believe they are signing a binding contract when they sign a lease. As such they believe they can change the terms as they please when the perceive a problem. This is why it is so important for people to look past the money associated with a lease and receive competent counsel before signing a lease.
It might be worth the effort.
As one lamp lights another, nor grows less,So nobleness enkindleth nobleness.
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