Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on December 7, 2012 at 8:13am

From what I know it is just the opposite. Unprocessed gas is going to be shipped to Canada, Winnipeg I think, because they have the processing plants already there.That's there are a couple of new pipelines proposed t run from SE Ohio and W Pa to Toledo and beyond. Then finished products will be exported from Canada, probably most of that back to the US.

As for building a LNG plant in Ashtabula it isn't financially feasible. It costs ten billion dollars to build a new LNG plant, two billion to convert an LNG export facility into a LNG import facility. It would cheaper to run a gas line across Lake Erie.

Permalink Reply by Craig Stull on December 7, 2012 at 9:14am

The proposed gas lines for Ashtabula and Trumbull will run up route 11 and the bike trail to Canada via Detroit. This is suppose to be completed by november 2015!!

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on December 7, 2012 at 9:59am

I thought raw gas was supposed to be coming from the 'Canadian Oil Sands' to our processing plants.

That gas must be headed to Louisiana processing and shipping.

Also, how about the possibility of exporting to the European (Allies Only) Market by way of the St. Lawrence Seaway (if the locks were wide, deep and long enough to accommodate the LNG Tankers that is) ? Maybe (if the Market were strong enough) a new LNG Plant and LNG Tankers that would fit the St. Lawrence could be built. If not then sell it for the higher price that would be required to pay for the infrastructure upgrades. How bad do the overseas markets want our natural gas and how much are they willing to pay us for it instead of buying it from potential hostiles ?

Boy never thought I'd ever be thinking this much about foreign affairs and markets !

Don't know - I think someone with the required savvy and access to appropriate reference material ought to at least take a close look at it all.

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on December 7, 2012 at 11:18am

I admire your desire to Ashtabula grow but I don't think a LNG port is the answer. There are several ports in the permitting stage, including one for Dominion Gas in Virginia and a couple on the Gulf. These facilities are usually built a mile or so of shore because LNG tankers are very dangerous. If a LNG tanker would ever explode it could be comparable to a small nuke.  Because of this they would not be allowed to traverse the St Lawrence Seaway. A LNG tanker anywhere along the seaway would be a prime target for terrorists. And they are not usually allowed into ports.  I think Boston allows them in but shuts down all other traffic while the tanker is under way, with heavy security.

Ashtabula's shipping facilities would be good for moving frac sand, chemicals, pipeline, steel for pipelines, and other supplies but I don't see a LNG port there. I could be wrong, maybe other people ave a different understanding f the issue than I  Looking forward to hearing other people's thoughts on this.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on December 7, 2012 at 11:43am

Me too Jim.

But a LNG facility a mile or so out in the Lake then sounds as if might work with your concerns.

Terrorists - don't know what to say about that - except find them and take them out of the equation.

St. Lawrence locks could be provided with heavy security like in Boston.

Small nuke blast equivalent is pretty scary - however - we're dealing with a lethal service no matter how you cut it - remembering some well publicized house explosions in the recent past. All I can say is handle with exceptional care - not to be taken lightly.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on December 7, 2012 at 11:44am

Which way is the gas supposed to flow Craig ?

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on December 10, 2012 at 10:04am

Thanks Jim, also heard likewise from Jack Straw on another discussion (same topic) - so, from what I've recently learned there is no natural gas coming from Canada to the U.S. - only oil.

Canada needs our natural gas for their own use from what I now gather (after enlightenment).

Permalink Reply by john p halloran on December 9, 2012 at 1:58pm

LNG tankers are not dangerous in its liquid state it cannot explode.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on December 10, 2012 at 8:47am

Had a spirited discussion on the General Forum page pertaining to this same subject.

Check it out john p - let us know what you think.

Some folks (on the other page) who are more privy to info. than I don't think a LNG processing plant offshore (in Lake Erie near Ashtabula) has a snowball's chance in you know where of attracting any attention or ever being successful.

I just plain don't know but it's interesting to me to think about.

There are alot of variables in marketing anything.

Demand, price, availability etc.

Anyway there are those that think it's too frought with danger and missing infrastructure (locks are too small, ships are too big, terrorists, pipelines are better, etc., etc., etc.).

If the money and demand is right infrastructure (locks too short, draft not deep enough, channels not wide enough, etc). could all be corrected.  Perhaps even a fleet of smaller LNG tankers could be built specifically for the St. Lawrence.  Like I say - I just don't know.

Also, find an attachment I found discussing LNG tankers and safety, etc.  You may find it interesting.

I also googled natural gas pipeline explosions and found no shortage of those documented.

Hey, it's lethal service - gotta be careful to say the least. 

Attachments:

• Quillen.pdf, 408 KB

Permalink Reply by john p halloran on December 11, 2012 at 12:20pm

You have to be cautious but I don't believe that ng in a pipeline is liquid just highly compressed.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on December 11, 2012 at 12:57pm

As far as I know you're right john p.; and my understanding is further described as follows: 

Natural Gas at service pressure can be low pressure, medium pressure or high pressure.

Compressed Natural Gas is called CNG.

Liquified Natural Gas is called LNG.

LNG needs to be refrigerated from a gas to a liquid.

Permalink Reply by john p halloran on December 12, 2012 at 4:59am

All true joseph LNG would turn to vapor rapidly although once it warms that's when the problems start !!!!! It's also under high pressure to keep it in a liquid state.