Pipeline ROW is forever

The closest thing to eternal life we may ever know is a pipeline right of way.

In 1886 the Standard Oil Co organized the Buckeye Pipeline Co to move it's products out of western OH. Many of the ROW are still in existence in OH, PA and NY. They are still used till this day, that's 127 years.

So when you are negotiating a pipeline ROW take your time, be very thorough you will be living with it for the rest of your life. Not only will you live with it, your children, grand children even great grand children will be affected by the decisions you make today.

In posts to other threads about this subject, people have warned that if you don't cooperate with the company they will go around you. If the company goes around you then you will miss out on the financial rewards. This may be true, but we have seen the results of this type of thinking here in the Marcellus and Utica plays. Many land owners rushed to sign leases to receive the bonus money without a thought for the language of those leases, and about the affect to their property. We see their stories regularly here on GMS.

We should all learn from our mistakes, and the mistakes of others. Take your time and be very thorough, if you can't get comfortable with the terms of the agreement then pass. Otherwise we, will be hearing from you in the future and how your bad decision has hurt you and your property.

Mark

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2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on February 21, 2013 at 2:48pm

Now THIS is *EXACTLY* what I am talking about...Texas saying, "WELLS are 'temporary', but PIPELINES are FOREVER."

Standard Oil is Rockafeller (being 'the standard'...).... LOTS of things are 'still in place' today - mindsets, 'apologies', just having to 'live with it'. Hmmmm.

Again, Hmmm, - YES: *Great grand children...think about THAT - not only will they have an automatic 'toe-tag' BILL from our government (as soon as they get out of the shoot...) for $xxx.xxx.???$$$ that they'll GAVE to PAY (without even knowing that have incurred ANY such indebtedness!), but they'll have to either end up being happy or sorry for the 'mistakes of the previous generations'. *Guess we DO 'all learn from our mistakes' (while the G/O Co.'s just merrily & QUIETLY 'float on by)....?FEEL you got a 'BAD' G/O Land-Lease Deal - you probably DID. - so, ......

SOR?RY - YOU just DIDN'T THINK???!...What kind of FUZZY 'LOGIC?' is THAT? Read what I started reading through the comments - good. BUT, it's tough when it's a bit too late in the game for MOST people

The 'We should all learn from our mistakes, and the mistakes of others." - Huh - what a wimpy COP-OUT STATEMENT! Oh, we're SO sorry...better luck NEXT TIME - oh, yeah the IS NO 'next time'! Sorry, Charlie! What a squishy COP-OUT!!!

----------------------------------------------------

THIS is exactly WHY I have proposed for MANY *LANDOWNING INDIVIDUALS* (You are *AMERICAN'S, PEOPLE! - don't forget THAT!) to BAND TOGETHER & try to get things straight for their own good.

You will see NUMEROUS (g/o?) individuals who add to these various posts in numerous ways (as you'll see, some better than others...as you'll read ***IF you go to the 'discussion' posted above...***). PEOPLE are people....and they HAVE been 'had' by POOR 'representations', but they should NOT be 'made to suffer' as they HAVE been with such STUPID statements as:

*Many landowners RUSHED (DID they?!? hmmm....) to sign leases to receive the bonus money WITHOUT A THOUGHT for the language OF those leases, and about the AFFECT to THEIR property. Again, HMmmm.

PEOPLE aren't stupid. They just AREN'T! - They CAN get 'sucker-punched' & THEN have the 'additional SLAP in their FACE of',...WELL, that's too bad now - sorry that happened to you...better 'LUCK?' next time (my little chick-a-dee!!).

PEOPLE WERE HORNSWAGGLED out of the RICHES that THEY possess (but don't UNDERSTAND! - and it's MAYBE been in the LAST 5 years or so that they have only BEGUN TO!!!) - THEY are like BABIES still in THIS 'WELL WATER'!

*SHAME on ANYONE who has the AUDACITY to even breathe an 'I'm sorry', because - you're really NOT!

This is BAD, but it's GOING to get WORSE...unless individual LANDOWNERS take a LOOK & CONSIDER - RATHER STRONGLY what offhanded, crazy way that I forsee things NEEDING to go - IF (*IF,if, if...) LANDOWNERS DO (do, do, DO!!!) want to 'GRAB the G/O 'Bulls' by their HORNS'! It'll be a BIT (intended) of an UPHILL BATTLE...but it IS something STRONGLY WORTH PURSUING!!!

AGAIN - read through my somewhat crazy discussion & make YOU OWN MIND UP! (for YOURSELF!!!) FEEL you got a 'BAD' G/O Land-Lease Deal - you probably DID. - so, ...NOTE: the names of 'posters' to the site & OTHER comments to things I've written...you'll see a 'comradery' pattern begin to show...'judge forthwith' for YOURSELF! (personally, I think that they are just SCARED with thoughts that I suggest). Pst - the 'WHEELAGE for PIPELINE' threads that you are seeing SPURRED from MY writing about them...think about THAT...Ida Tarbell....now YOU go THINK - for YOURSELF. (***good luck - I HATE that stupid saying! - it's like, "have a good one.")

KNOWLEDGE is POWER! * As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness.

Permalink Reply by Mike Coles on February 21, 2013 at 3:47pm

I wrote the ROW examples to Doug Clark's SWEPI/Shell ROW post.

http://gomarcellusshale.com/forum/topics/swepi-shell-right-of-way-a...

For clarification, the interstate interchange was there when the pipeline was built.  It should have been a 'no brainer' that the site had future development potential.   The pipeline should have been relocated or the owner paid accordingly.  To better understand the current pipeline market consider the statement below taken from Chesapeake Energy Annual Report, Form 10-K. (my bold emphasis added)

 

Control Substantial Land and Drilling Location Inventories. After we identified the trends discussed above, we initiated a plan to build and maintain the largest inventory of onshore drilling opportunities in the U.S. Recognizing that better horizontal drilling and completion technologies, when applied to various new unconventional plays, would likely create a unique opportunity to capture decades worth of drilling opportunities, we embarked on an aggressive lease acquisition program, which we have referred to as the “gas shale land grab” of 2006 through 2008 and the “unconventional oil land grab” of 2009 and 2010. We believed that the winner of these land grabs would enjoy competitive advantages for decades to come as other companies would be locked out of the best new unconventional resource plays in the U.S. We believe that we have executed our land acquisition strategy with particular distinction. At December 31, 2010, we held approximately 13.2 million net acres of onshore leasehold in the U.S. and have identified approximately 38,000 drilling opportunities on this leasehold. We believe this extensive backlog of drilling, more than ten years worth at current drilling levels, provides unmistakable evidence of our future growth capabilities. We further believe that the majority of the U.S.-based land acquisition phase is now complete and are forecasting to spend significantly less on new leasehold in the coming periods as compared to recent years.

 

The oil & gas companies learned from other shale plays to get in early and get leases signed before the true productivity of the Marcellus is known.  There only downside was the loss of signing bonus money.  If the Marcellus is not productive, they would let the leases expire.  If the Marcellus is productive (remember 20/20 hindsight is easy), the oil & gas company does what's necessary to protect their interest in the lease.

Now move ahead a few years, the current bottleneck in the system is lack of pipeline infrastructure.  It's time for the pipeline land grab.  The mistakes made in signing those 'land grab' leases should not be repeated with pipeline ROW agreements.  The oil & gas real estate market lacks the transparency of other real  estate markets.  We have gotten so use to entering an address a in browser search bar and getting 5 websites offering to tell us what that house is worth.  This site and sister sites provide the closest equivalent to an oil & gas multiple listing type service where information is freely exchanged.  Knowledge is power in this market.  Including  the ability to realize if the professional you hired really is an expert or became one yesterday.  Use this ROW opportunity to reevaluate your situation and negotiate a good agreement.  Trust yourself to recognize good advice and to get a second opinion when in doubt.

Permalink Reply by Lance Nimmo on February 22, 2013 at 2:09am

I find it hard to not sign a ROW agreement that uses 50ft around the EDGE of my farm that pays me 50% of what I paid for the place. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

Permalink Reply by Greg Smith on February 22, 2013 at 5:44am

Lance, I support your individual rights, thoughts, perceptions, and choices. Not ALL pipeline, drilling, fracking, roads, powerlines are a problem...sometimes it works to your advantage. Best wishes for your individual situation.

Permalink Reply by Lance Nimmo on February 22, 2013 at 6:09am

And likewise. Trust me, there are NO public sewage, water, etc. in my area, nor will there be in my lifetime. If there was, or it was not a property I only wanted for agricultural purposes, I'd be down and dirty with the rest. But, the fact is the ROW money will pay down half the mortgage, which like pipelines, can be forever, LOL.

Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on February 22, 2013 at 2:45pm

On one of the threads posted here (I can't remember which one) someone suggested that we read about how people in other shale plays deal with pipeline ROW.

I did. What I found, in general, is that land owners in those plays have the same concerns and questions we here have.

What I found, in many responses to those questions and concerns, was that land owners should stand up to the land men. They should demand adequate compensation and protections for their property. Yes there is only so far you can push a company. But right now these land men come into your homes and tell you how it will be, they don't have the right.

Again, after reading these other sites we all have the same issue, being mistreated by the companies, and that land owners should stand up to them

Permalink Reply by Greg Smith on February 23, 2013 at 4:10am

Mark, I'm in agreement that Landowners (LO) should "stand up", be informed, become educated about their rights and interests in their land. Personally, I would tell a company (politely) to pound sand before I would allow a PL to cross my property. Their single argument is "the shortest distance"; my argument is I OWN THE LAND. They can go around me because their budget costs don't concern me and visa versa.

Re: another item, though, I believe that throwing ALL landmen under the bus is an exaggeration; my personal experiences have NEVER included a rude landman. And, it could be because I took time to find sophisticated leases from "wealthier-than-I" (implying the lawyers had been employed). Oil and gas is not a new game in this country and lawyers have been around for centuries before this country was formed or oil/gas discovered. Personally, IMHO, bashing a profession is akin to other poor choices. I'm of proud Irish descent and wouldn't take kindly to being lumped into being called a hot-headed, gangster Irishman. This analogy could go on and on, but all landmen are not evil no more than salesmen for cars, insurance, I.T., real estate, etc.

Simple axiom: What's something worth? What somebody is willing to give for it today.Period.

And, when seeking advice, certainly don't take it from people who use false names! make them identify themselves...by golly, MAN UP!

Permalink Reply by James Brink, Esq. on February 24, 2013 at 1:30pm

There are some good thoughts in this thread.  So let me throw out another point.  Assuming you don't have a mortgage to pay and let's assume also that the pipe is not following the perimeter but instead crosses dead center.  Why do it?  I have had clients literally give away the farm because the landman was nice and even bought a steak dinner at Hoss' for him.  I am not against gas production.  However, I am for folks making rational decisions based on the facts with an eye to the future.  The folks have to be careful about what is going on out there.  Maybe its time to consider new ways to conduct ROW negotiations.

015334grltd9mPermalink Reply by 015334grltd9m on February 24, 2013 at 6:05pm

I'm surprised there is not a pipeline landowner group. 

Mark, you can find some leader to have meetings and every landowner could sign a marketing agreement :')

Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on February 24, 2013 at 6:58pm

Ron,

I'm not sure a group is the answer but I know you would help anyone who asked, and I would also help. All anyone has to do is send a PM. Sorry to offer your services without your permission, but from what I've read here I'm sure you would at least accept a PM from people.

Permalink Reply by Dan Brockett on February 26, 2013 at 3:44am

I find it rare when even a couple neighbors work together and share information on a pipeline agreement; I think this is because the nature of the deal, there is always a chance they could work around you with your neighbor and he gets the deal (unlike an O&G lease where they probably want all of us). By pitting nieghbors against each other, pipeline companies are getting a better deal and landowners are getting a worse deal.

Incidentally, Penn State (who I work for) is doing a pipeline/seismic workshop in Mercer on March 11.

Permalink Reply by bill on February 26, 2013 at 4:12am

Dan, what are the details of the workshop, time and place.  I would like to attend.

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