Arguments against anti-fracking activists - Water use
I just hate when activists try to use facts that I know are wrong in their quest to stop gas development. I saw one today that I tried to respond to but I would like more ammo (so to speak).
This was the article.
Which points to
One of the claims was -
Lea Harper, founder of the Southeast Ohio Alliance to Save Our Water, an anti-fracking organization, said “water is being wasted in a one-time use for a single industry.”
“We cannot make more water,” she said. “We can find renewable sources of energy.”
I tried to comment on this, I think my comment was deleted or maybe I just do not know how to comment?
Anyway, my point was to be, when Methane is burned, water is a byproduct. Water is made!!
CH4 + 2 02 -----> CO2 + 2 H2O
What I do not know is how much water. For example if they use 5 Mil gal to fracture, how much water is returned to the environment after all the gas that is produced is burned?
Anyone have the answer or have an article that they have seen?
Please help me!
PS That was not the only thing I found to be wrong in that article!
Views: 3265
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Keith A Williams on
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Fang,
Thank you for the link! I used it to make a second comment!
When the gas that comes from the well is burned, WATER IS CREATED. More water than was used. See the following:
http://eidmarcellus.org/marcellus-shale/turning-natural-gas-into-water-hydraulic-fracturing-doesnt-deplete-water-supplies/7713/Both my comments now show up!
My original comment
""Lea Harper, founder of the Southeast Ohio Alliance to Save Our Water, an anti-fracking organization, said "“water is being wasted in a one-time use for a single industry.”"
"“We cannot make more water,”" she said." “We can find renewable sources of energy.”"
By burning clean natural gas, we are indeed making more water! Gas is mostly Methane - CH4. The reaction is
CH4 + 2 O2 ---> CO2 + 2 - H2O
H2O is water! We may in fact be freeing more water than is being used.
Also Produced water from these wells can be recycled. Look at Patriot Water in Warren Ohio.
Please get your facts straight before you print them!
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Permalink Reply by Tom Brian on
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Now you done it , burn gas and cause sea level to rise, damn its hard to know what to do.... i got it, new idea.. catch the water when we burn and reuse it to frack!
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Permalink Reply by Dan on
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What about the two O2 molecules. The fractivists will say drilling is raising the oceans and depleting our oxigen. And the extra CO2......global warming.........we're doomed any which way.
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Permalink Reply by Dan on
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Fang,
I was being sarcastic.
CO2 sequestration is real wether the need has been proven or not.
Drilling helps CO2 sequestration by injecting it into the target formation to enhance production.
As Jack has mentioned over 6000 million gallons of beer are produced each year. Added to soft drink production this could be the largest carbon storage (CO2) effort the world has seen. Maybe that is why the world cools? If we all take great effort to induce a strong healthy burp after downing a pint the world will be fine.
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Permalink Reply by alan coogan on -
Wow a million gallons!
Let's see, that is 43560 cubic feet (one acre one foot deep) X 7.8 gallons per cubic foot= 340,000
gallons X 3 =1 million + gallons. That is a wading pool (duck pond) 211'x211' x 3 feet deep.
Rain fall in our area is 35-40 inches (3-3.5') year.
Don' you wonder where all that water goes if you don't use some of it?
just irish
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Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on
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Boy, Fang...I sure don't know. I've got a SIMPLE SOLUTION - SWIG DOWN a JUG of 'that stuff' & see what happens...just a thought. - Just saying that - I'd better go talk to that - WHO was that guy - the 'moonshine guy' that I used to get ribbed about by those 'oh so intelligencia' ardnark vark/barks? - those 'G&O tools' spinnin' their spools of yarn & hob-nob gooble-de-gook...hockus pockus?\pookus/poo-kiss...? I admire their verbose vituosity of manner, song, & dance (hip-hop, wasn't it?...).
Back to the matter at hand, just a second, I need a drink of water to help clear my throat...that's better. NOW, where was I? I believe that I AGREE TO DISAGREE in this instance.
Let's face it - it ALL a big SCHAM! WOOL to be pulled over the 'money for nothing' little land-owners by the BIG BLOKES! - and when it's all 'said & done'...THEY (the G&O Co.'s...) will just shrug their shoulders, smile, and say, "WELL - sorry, folks. We SURE didn't think that THAT would happen. NO we did NOT - IF we thought ANYTHING 'like this' would happen - beLIEve you/me...we SURELY wouldn't have done ANYTHING like we did in the WAYS that we did them. SORRY, FOLKS (in the meanwhile - with their fingers crossed behind their backs - AND their gas wells in place & not producing what they ONCE were...so it REALLY doesn't matter now.
Fang - you got girls? Any of em ever 'get pregnant before marriage' - or one of their friends? WHAT would YOU like to do to an 'individual' who just 'pulled up his fly' & WALKED? M-HMM...and you were saying concerning the water?...
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I am in NO WAY being a jerk here...just trying to make as RATIONAL analogy as possible that even the most sane father, brother, sister, or mother could make to understand this somehow absurd numb-scull thought being trafficked (put out there...). Like I said - drink your 'eight glasses a day' of FRESH-FRACKED WATER...***STEP RIGHT UP FOLKS - FREE sample of FRACJ WATER - SURE to put a 'gleam in YOUR EYE'!!! The G&O Boys sure run rings around the three-ringed circuses!!! Barnum would be outta' business - he'd sure jump on THIS BANDWAGON! WHAT a bunch of HOGWASH!...like I said - DRINK UP! (it won't hurt cha'!).
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You ever WATCH the two 'gas' movies? Fraxk something or other?...& Gasmask? - playin' TWO sides of the coin? - he said/she said?...pull 'em up, kids. - THAT'S 'Jollywood' for you...but SERIOUSLY.I DID watch them both. Interesting.
HERE are the facts - no matter HOW they got 'presented'...right is right, wrong is wrong.
1) Gas Well drilled (DEEP WELL...), 'clean' H2O used - MIXED with 'poison' mix, 'waste tub' created to 'HOLD/CONTAIN' the 'permanently FOREVER SCREWED UP H2O'...taming of the Screw?
2) 'bad water' removed/contained...BUT what about the water LEFT 'IN the ground'?...what goes IN - MUST 'MIX' (THEN come out...)...WHAT is in that MIX? Ya, ya, ya...you are told WHAT is 'in the mix', BUT...NOT the 'MIX % QUANTITY' (and THAT is 'the question'!). Wouldn't YOU like to know. I know - &they'll 'tell you', but THEN *they'd have to...du, duh, DUH! (time's up!) - WHAT would they do? Hmmm....
3) Gas/Oil & what-have-you...being PROFITABLY REMOVED (those landowners settle for TRIFFLES! - CHEERS for US!...those FOOLS!). We're just the 'bad boyfriend' or 'girlfriend' here...no hurt feelings - you're pregnant (poisoned?!)? - couldn't be ME (tee-hee, tee-hee laughed the little G&O Com-panzi)! You're 'broken' now...Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall, had a great fall...all the kings horses & men didn't bother to 'mend'...bump, bump-thump,thump (go the seismic testing mobiles...).
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OK - I need brevity...so how's this? What would you do if your wife complained -or- ANY 'family member' who happened to be living in the vicinity of WHERE a 'fricked well' was & THEY were experiencing UNUSUAL SYMPTOMS that they NEVER had before? WHAT would you be thinking THEN? HONESTLY answer THAT...then we'll talk. Remember, I said HONESTLY.... I'll take for granted that there may NOT - at this time, be ANYONE that you are CLOSE TO experiencing anything like the symptoms people claim to have...BUT - WHAT IF there were? I know - it's HARD to 'put oneself in THAT PLACE' until they DO. BAD WATER is BAD WATER.
When's the last time you had a Rum Frack n' CK? with a twist of lime?...uh-huh...thought so. Bet Bond would try it - FRACK, please...shaken, not stirred. Cheers. Yes, I know - I just invented that next hot Martini...goof-balls hitting gulfballs.
Oh, one last minor thing needing attention...for all you huckleberries out there - don't change that dial...STRAIGHT from VALVOLINE'S 'Complete Motor Oil Guide'...please see:"Disposing of Your Used Motor Oil" (p.18):
"Take your used motor oil in a clean container to an oil collection facility. Used motor oil is a valuable resource and should not be discarded. Improperly disposed motor oil can contaminate drinking water and poison wildlife. In fact, the used motor oil generated from one oil change can contaminate more than one million gallons of water!
Be careful when handling used oil. Continuous contact with used motor oil has caused cancer in laboratory animal testing. Avoid prolonged skin contact with used motor oil. Wash skin thoroughly with soap and water."
---now WHAT do you say to THAT...something about 'out of the horses's mouth'...? ***Vavoline ITSELF!!! -- WOW!!! Pray that the RIGHT (WRONG - for the big G/O guys?...) get ahold of THAT ONE! YIKES - STOP THE PRESS - STOP THE PRESS!!! YOU HEARD THE 'CONNECTION' HERE, FOLKS - I SHOULD GET A 'PIECE OF THE PIE' for even bring this out!...and WHAT about these 'oil additives'? - up to 20%?...Hmmm...LOTS of 'oil' gets deposited on our roads - to be WASHED into streams, BUT the FRACK KINGS dump (my bad - 'deposit'...for all those 'correct thought' whatever that goofy thinking is cracked up to be - oh, yes...POLITICALLY CORRECT (did I get it 'right'?). yep, yep, yep - I'd say we are DEFINITELY on the 'right track' ('narrow gauge track' - one 'track' mind?...money-money-money$$$money for nothing & your chicken for free!!)
EXTRA - EXTRA...READ ALL AbOUT IT!! - HALLIBURTON ABOUT TO REVEAL THEIR NEXT BIG SCHAM! THE SCHIZAM OF CHICKPOX PICK-UP-STICKS...the one you've ALL been waiting for (DEMANDED, but NEVER GOTTEN...the 'secret formula'...talk about a whiz-bang!!! Snap-Crackle-POP!!!
---------------------and with that...I can see it all now, tomorrow's big headlines. BUT - HERE is the 'never ending satories' biggest HOPE (FEAR? - have another beer...goes down smooth AND YOU'LL 'forget' all about this, m'friend!) - that 'people' really ARE 'just too busy' to care...they all go from their air-conditioned house to their air-conditioned car to their air-conditioned job...back to their car, then their house...then it all just begins AGAiN! ***TICKY-TACKY HOUSES!!!...and so goes 'slow Joe'. I owe, I owe...so off to work I go. What a wonderful life - yuck!
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As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles noblesness. How is YOUR 'nobleness' today? WHO ARE YOU? Who is John Galt? Gault? Gulch?...a deep, dark ditch we are ALL in...drink up - FRACK it to me...FRACK it to YOU! Cheers! I'm STILL trying to 'get there', but the words just march on, Frank. Look forward to hearin' from you.
***ONE MORE THING...Yes, 'refining ANYTHING' is a problem, but NOT a problem in the ways that I believe 'time will tell' with THIS FRACKING situation. It's a 'cat' that is NIOT (Idiot...Not) out of the bag - YET! ...and what a demonic black cat it shall possibly be....TIME...............
.................DOES................................TELL, MEROW! ***Cat's NOT outta' the bag yet!
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Have YOU completely read this document?...WELL written. There ARE things that I find 'intriguing' & do 'question'.
*CEMENT buffer for well casing...Now, cement - WHAT do you really know about CEMENT? From what I recall - if memory serves correctly...is that it is TTHICK (thicker than a 'milkshake'...) and then there's the 'thin' area that the cement is 'poured into' & needs to cure. The thing that bothers me is HOW does it 'dry/cure'? The next is IF it is 'poured' in phases...there are 'fractures/fault lines automatically created by one area 'drying'(?) until the next batch is poured.
----Think 'clay'...with clay - when you ADD to a 'structure' - one must 'crosshatch' & THEN 'fit together' - WITHOUT having any 'air pockets' (which cause your pot to 'blow up' in the kiln - or IF it does bisque, it THEN has a 'weak spot'...it just DOESN'T make sense to me - but who am I?
WHAT kind of 'cement' IS this? - there is 'brine' AND salt water...it is not good to have 'salt' mix with fairly fresh cement...I really think that there are MORE 'fracture lines' - ALSO due TO 'drying/shrinkage OF the cement(?)...interesting.
ALL 'bodies' that have a 'water mix' - be they 'clay/porcelain', cement, etc. - when they 'dry' SHRINK....but you knew that, I'm sure....
They were other things I found interesting...but as I've said - ALL information is GOOD information. Thanks for posting that, Joe C. ***DOESN'T 'combat' 'anti arguements' by any means - perhaps BACKS UP THEIR THOUGHTS...if they can 'swim through' the entire writing. WHY is 'everyone' supposedly 'FOR's' -or 'ANTI's'???
There ARE many matters to consider that ARE beneficial as 'well' as potentially HARMING in ways as yet unforeseen...did you 'pick up on' the DATES of the years posted...? Pretty 'old' - nOW could be said 'behind the times'! YES - especially as the FRAC'ing has escalated by leaps & bounds - ONLY IN THE LAST X10 YEARS!!!
WHAT CAN YOU SAY TO THAT? - REALLY???! It's like a 'run-away freight train', it is...TIME will tell.
Asbestos was once 'good' - fire retardant, good insulator - heck, it was 'given 'OK' status - by the very government...that has NOW 'condemned it'. WHY?...well, what has changed, what has stayed the same?...Think about THAT...same with DDT....once good - now 'bad'...and 'NG'? good...
---------------------(Frac Drilling (?)
OH - there was a 'short mention' of something I had considered...AIR PRESSURE as a 'FRAC' blow out for pressure...but complicated. THERE's TONS in this to absorb. Will mull through it again - on my day off...thanx.
As the 'trolling beast' says: 'PROB-LEM?' in a snide way...time. TIME.
As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. ***They CAN'T 'test' or 'see' the CEMENT poured around the well casings...SO, how do they 'know? WAIT until the 'metal' rusts away...THEN they'll be able to 'pick up' on 'seepage' of chemicals...LOL(?) -lots of luck?...laugh out loud WHILE you can....HMMM...
Again, thanks for the article (LONG!, but good...WELL worth the read - time!).
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Keith--
Ask them if Di-Hydrogen Monoxide should be banned. See the link below for more information on this horrible substance!
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Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on
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Source: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91363837
“Audubon International estimates that the average American course uses 312,000 gallons per day. In a place like Palm Springs, where 57 golf courses challenge the desert, each course eats up a million gallons a day. That is, each course each day in Palm Springs consumes as much water as an American family of four uses in four years.”
57 Palm Springs Golf Courses x 1 million gallons/day x 365 days = 20,805 million gallons/year
20,805 million gallons/year / 5 million gallons per each well fraced = 4,161
The water used (wasted?) to keep those Palm Springs Golf Courses green for one year would supply the water necessary to frac 4161 wells.
Looking at it another way, the water used (wasted?) to keep those Palm Springs Golf Courses green for one day would supply the water necessary to frac more than 11 wells.
Palm Springs only hosts 57 of the 16,000 Golf Courses present in the USA.
Think about it the next time you hear about the POTUS heading out for a round of Golf with Tiger!
Think about it the next time someone comments on how much water is wasted in fracing a well!
Let's keep things in perspective!
JS
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Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde on
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Jack besides the water that a golf course used perhaps it would be interesting to know how many tons of chemicals they use as well. Fertizer run off pollutes the water, herbicides applied,insecticides, chemical rodent control, even beer release!
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Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on
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RE: "beer release!"
The United States produced 196 million barrels of beer in 2009.
By measure, in the United States, there are 31 gallons in a beer barrel.
196 million barrels of beer/year x 31 gallons/beer barrel = 6,076 million gallons of beer/year
It requires 5 Million gallons of fluid to frac a well.
6,076 million gallons of beer/year / 5 Million gallons of fluid to frac a well = 1215 wells/year
If we chose to use beer as a frac fluid, we could frac 1215 wells/year.
But there would be no beer left to drink.
I say that we continue to frac with water.
If the decision were made to frac with beer, I would immediately join the “Silly People” in opposing fracing.
JS
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