Arguments against anti-fracking activists - Water use

I just hate when activists try to use facts that I know are wrong in their quest to stop gas development. I saw one today that I tried to respond to but I would like more ammo (so to speak).

This was the article.

Water taken for Fracking.

Which points to

Lancaster gazette article.

One of the claims was -

Lea Harper, founder of the Southeast Ohio Alliance to Save Our Water, an anti-fracking organization, said “water is being wasted in a one-time use for a single industry.”

“We cannot make more water,” she said. “We can find renewable sources of energy.”

I tried to comment on this, I think my comment was deleted or maybe I just do not know how to comment?

Anyway, my point was to be, when Methane is burned, water is a byproduct. Water is made!!

CH4 + 2 02 -----> CO2 + 2 H2O

What I do not know is how much water. For example if they use 5 Mil gal to fracture, how much water is returned to the environment after all the gas that is produced is burned?

Anyone have the answer or have an article that they have seen?

Please help me!

PS  That was not the only thing I found to be wrong in that article!

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Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on March 26, 2013 at 4:18pm

RE: " Meanwhile, the CO2 that's also generated when methane burns stays in our atmosphere, increasing the rate at which our planet is being warmed by the greenhouse effect."

Absolute rubbish. CO2 is plant food. Living plants (and some animals) take in CO2 as part of their life cycle, plants breath in the CO2 and in turn exhale oxygen. The plants utilize the Carbon to build their skeletons (think about trees and corn stalks) and produce the food that supports animal life (including our own). The oceans buffer the CO2, much going into the skeletons and exoskeletons of marine life.

RE: "Atmospheric and ocean warming lead to faster rates of water evaporation from our planet's surface. The overall effect is that, as we burn more methane, the planet will become drier."

Again, absolute rubbish. Times in the Earth's history when the CO2 content (by percentage) was much higher than today does not correlate with higher temperatures.

 

I suggest that you do a Google search with the following parameter:

atmospheric co2 in geologic history

You just might learn something.

The truth is out there.

Do not belief everything you think.

 

JS

 

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on March 26, 2013 at 6:01pm

Oh, I almost forgot, more RE: " Meanwhile, the CO2 that's also generated when methane burns stays in our atmosphere, increasing the rate at which our planet is being warmed by the greenhouse effect."

 

When it rains, rain water is slightly acidic (no I am not talking about acid rain); I am taking about Carbonic acid (H2CO3).

When droplets of water form as rain, some CO2 combines with the water:

CO2 + H2O = H2CO3

 

What you said is absolute rubbish ... CO2 does not stay in the atmosphere, it is removed by a number of means.

The truth is out there.

Do not belief everything you think.

 

JS

 

 

Permalink Reply by Keith A Williams on March 27, 2013 at 1:52am

Jack et all,

Again more truths that the anti's are trying to ignore.

I will add to yours. As the temp starts to rise the atmosphere can hold more water. That will lead to more clouds! The increase in cloud cover will reflect more light back into space. This will have a natural dampening effect on the rise in temperatures. The earth will continue! We are not creating a dooms day event!

As Jack said, the earth has had times when the CO2 level was MUCH higher than it is now.

I find it funny that if we take the average weather, for the area that we inhabit, back over a slightly longer period of time we would find that the average temps would NOT be to our liking. We have had Ice age after Ice age here in North America. As of 1970 the forecasters were saying that we were on our way to another Ice age. By slightly warming the earth, we may well have stopped the next ice age (or maybe we just slowed it down?).

Enough for now!

See I can spin this thing too!!!

Keith

Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde on March 27, 2013 at 6:07am

Global warmer fans all I have to say is BRING IT ON!  It's Spring and snowing, bring on the Global Warming Now!

Permalink Reply by Dan on March 27, 2013 at 6:28am

I'm with you on bringing on the warm.  This past week the Globe warmer fans claimed that climate change is causing the cold air to drop on us from the pole.  Just after they reversed their quoted predicted earth temps over the next 30 years because of bad data.  The grape vine say's Matt Demon is already working on a movie, "The Morning After the Day Before Yesterday"

Permalink Reply by Robert Olin on March 26, 2013 at 5:32am

Water is a smokescreen.  GasFrac uses propane as a fracking fluid but they will come up with something they don't like about that.  Crusaders are religious.  Environmentalism becomes a religion and that makes these people irrational and dangerous.  You can do anything to your adversary if you believe yourself righteous and them demonic.  They burned "witches" at the stake not too long ago - still do in other parts of the world.   The only thing propping up this economy is our energy dollars staying here to create good paying jobs instead of going to Saudi Arabia.   Want to save the environment - stop population growth.  How - easy - limit your family to two children.  That will make you the real environmentalist.

Permalink Reply by john on March 26, 2013 at 5:51am

AMEN.  i was at a antii drilling mtng where a lady at the podium said

"we will by ANY MEANS NECESSARY stop this industry".

Permalink Reply by Dan on March 26, 2013 at 6:00am

By any means with the exception of driving to the meeting, heating her home, decorating her yard as Fisher Price land with 200lbs of plastic toys .................................

Permalink Reply by Greg Smith on March 26, 2013 at 2:35pm

Good one!!

Permalink Reply by Robert Olin on March 26, 2013 at 4:00pm

GasFac's water less gelled propane comes back either as a gas that can be collected or as fluids that blends with the oil.  No need to spend days pumping water out of the well.  No - I don't own any stock but have followed it for some time.  There seems to be growing evidence that injecting water back into the ground under pressure can trigger earth quakes if faults are near by, so waterless fracking can take that out of their argument.  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130326151125.htm

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on March 27, 2013 at 5:00pm

AMEN?...oh, yes - amen (of course...). You are right AND you are wrong. BOTH. 

HERE is where 'time' has the 'upper hand' (for it has NOTHING to do with ANY of these 'words, intentions, or purposes (good & bad...)...the GAME will be so determined by the OUTCOME...

...and the 'OUTCOME' MAY be MANY YEARS hence....

...I again mention *asbestos*...*WHY was it approved to use in SCHOOLS +? - ANSWER THAT. Today, what (technologies?) were ONCE deemed the 'best, cutting edge' available are NOW condemned. TIME DID 'tell'....

DDT - once widespread use, THEN found to harm...good old TIME sees MANY faults of man....

NO 'environmentalist' here - only a ***PRAGMATIST*** (MANY 'PRAGMATISTS'!) who have experienced many FLAWS in 'logical thought(?)' of one 'TIME' or another....

LOGICAL PRAGMATISM. ***ENVIRONMENTAL PRAGMATISM***

Here is an 'off the cuff' question...how many of you have 'friends of a different preference choice' concerning the SAME 'sex'?...to my father once was made a statement: "You are just a 'homophobe'." - to which he QUICKLY turned the tables & ejaculated back in response, "I am NOT a 'homophobe' - THEY are 'HETEROPHOBES'. Do you see the position that was attempted to be THRUST upon his mind?...it was not HE who was 'afraid', BUT there was an undignified ATTEMPT to 'call him on the carpet' & put HIM 'on the defensive'...NOT! Good Man, my father. HE quickly called things correctly. He NEVER said in ANY WAY that 'they' were making a 'wrong lifestyle choice' - BUT THAT was what was was BEING DONE TO HIM! WRONG!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF you are going to use the things that are being used (frack chemicals) and you really DON'T KNOW what WiLL be the outcome down the road...then it just shouldn't be done. PERIOD. Everyone has done experiments with water & food coloring as kids (*you probably have colored your shared of EASTER EGGS - right?). Just ONE DROP of coloring affects the purity of the water - just ONE. WHAT do you say to that?...and the Co,'s are mixing WHAT with the water?...I'll be. Case closed.

-------------------------------

The same ANALOGY 'stands firm' here...WHO WANTS WHAT?...THAT is what things REALLY come down to.

1) IS getting the source of profit good for the country in a myriad of ways? YES. (follow the money, he who has the gold makes the rules, cash is king, on & on & on...no one argues with what the TOOL of $$$-MOOLA can DO for ANY individual...money is good. resources are good. technology is good. innovation is good. enough said....

2) 'ENVIRONMENTALISTS' are just people (like the G&O employees...YES - that's ALL they are - EMPLOYEES! PAID SERVANTS OF LABOR & INDUSTRY...sorry, guys). These 'people'/individuals are PRAGMATISTS who can SEE what potential dangers we are entering into with doing what is being done.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------those who have eyes to see...let them see.... SEE? 

HERE are x2 examples that serve as example:

1) ***Valvoline 'Complete Motor Oil Guide' flyer, p.18 - 'Disposing of your Used Motor Oil': "Take your used motor oil in a clean container to an oil collection facility. Used motor oil is a valuable resource and should not be discarded. Improperly disposed motor oil can contaminate DRINKING WATER and POISON WILDLIFE.In FACT, the used  motor oil generated from one oil change can contaminate more than one million gallons of water!

Be careful when handling used oil. Conyinuous contact with used motor oil has caused CANCER in laboratory animal testing. Avoid prolonged skin contact with used motor oil. Wash skin thoroughly with soap and water." ***HMMM...what gets said to THAT?!***

2)...had a guy today who IS 'in the industry who basically said that, "Well, we're learning more every day on how to do things better." WHAT? I asked myself in my mind - THAT said to me that there is MUCH in 'experimental stage' concerning HOW these 'frack wells' are being PRESENTLY HANDLED/MANAGED!!! -- that 'THEY' really DON'T HAVE A CLUE on WHAT exactly there are doing. SURE 'they' know how to RUN the equipment, computers, & frack +...BUT that they really DON'T in a way have a clue WHAT is going on.

***EVERYBODY is all 'happy, happy - joy, joy'...we're all going to be rich (but for HOW LONG?...). NO ONE will 'benefit' like they are assuming (at this point in time...), and you should know what it means to 'ASSUME' (it makes a donkey's patooty out of YOU & ME!).

SO - what cha' gonna do when the $ from the check you receive ONLY gets you one good set of groceries & a couple 'fill-up' tanks of GAS?...

...if you're gonna' PLAY, you're gonna' PAY! TOUCHE'.

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. WATER - mmm. Ever been SO thirsty that the ONLY thing that quenches is a CLEAN glass of water? REMEMBER THAT. *TIME*

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on March 27, 2013 at 5:27pm

Go on with you all now. YOU, WE all KNOW that when 'push comes to shove' the 'JIG' is up. Giime' that, gimme' that...gimme', gimme', gimme' that.

SOMETIMES the best thing to do it be patient & KNOW how/what is taking place. Crawl before you walk...then skip & run & dance....

OK - 'water is made'...yeah, right. Question: how MUCH water? HOW MUCH USEABLE WAR...I mean WATER?

OK - here's a GREAT new 'industry idea'...get together with PEP (Pepsi) & KO (Coke) to see if THEY want to MARKET this 'wonderful water'. Believe you/me...IF there is a 'nickel' to be turned - they will!

GO AHEAD - approach the big 'DRINK MARKET GUYS' & ask/see IF they'd be willing to SHARE in your 'claim' (or...would they find it 'LAME'?!). Common' champ - let's see what you got. IF you've got a 'GOOD GIMMICK'..ROLL with it. If it 'flops' - then STOP!

-----------------------------------

THAT would be a REALLY TEST! IF you're 'water production theory passes' then THAT will be 'known', and of not...THAT will be known too. ***I hear-by declare that we should put an END to all this silliness & 'arguing' once & for all by letting the REAL MARKETERS of H2O put it to THEIR TEST - the American BUYING MARKET. Hey, bring in COORS, BUDWEISER, +...how about KRAFT, NABISCO...they could use it in the process of baby food!!! How about it! A TEST!!! The *BEST POSSIBLE TEST* one could use - the AmeriCAN Guinea-pig!!! (of which YOU are one, too!)

-------------------------------------

***Hey, LEA HARPER, founder of the Southeast Ohio Alliance to Save Our Water***...here is the 'TORCH' - contact Pepsi, Coke, Coors, Budwieser, Nabisco, Kraft + and find out what THEY think? After all - EVERYONE is after a good, better, best way to utilize 'material' to PROFIT FROM!!! IF it 'pans out' could be a good 'side line' market for the G&O Co.'s!!! GOOD IDEA - like it.*Everyone likes money! IF they can PROFIT - they WILL come!

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. WATER - absolutely NOTHING like it! Ahhh!!! Give 'em koolaid to 'flush' down their 'frack drains'...or better yet - have the people touting all this 'water byproduct' when Methane is burned mix up a pitcher of KOOLAID & swig it down (or give it to their kids or grandkids - THEY'LL LOVE IT!...good for 'em, too! - EVERYONE loves KOOLAID!

Koolaid, Koolaid - tastes GREAT! Koolaid, Koolaid - can't wait! GREAT IDEA, Keith!

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