solar+batteries starting to beat gas

Climate Changed
Batteries and Gas: Frenemies of the Power World Face Off

"It was only three years ago that natural gas overtook coal to become king of America’s power mix, and its throne is already being challenged -- by batteries.

As battery costs fall, solar farms are increasingly installing storage systems, allowing them to sock away cheap electricity by day and pump it onto grids at night. Solar-storage projects are already cheaper than gas plants to build in the U.S. Southwest. And that’s bound to spread, some analysts and executives said Tuesday at the BNEF summit in New York."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-26/can-batteries-ki...

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Permalink Reply by Paul Heckbert on June 9, 2019 at 6:59am

But "permanent tax breaks to the US fossil fuel industry are more than seven times larger than those for renewable energy" and "A report ... investigated American energy industry subsidies and found that in 2015–2016, the federal government provided $14.7bn per year to the oil, gas, and coal industries, on top of $5.8bn of state-level incentives."

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-ce...

Permalink Reply by Sylvester Deal on June 9, 2019 at 4:06am

HA,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.  Got any other good ones?

Permalink Reply by Bullfrex on June 9, 2019 at 10:32am

Wrong Paul....as usual.

There is a distinct difference between tax breaks, which are available to every American company paying US Federal taxes, and direct subsidies, which is $$$ given to the Renewables sector to make it economically feasible to deploy the Solar and Wind "renewables".

Tax breaks allow any company to keep more of their earnings, for R&D and other areas where they may increase their contribution to the US economy. Subsidies allow unprofitable (read renewables) to compete against vastly superior technologies like fossil fuels..

To borrow from Robert Palmers' song, it goes....."might as face it, we're addicted to love" of fossil fuels....to the tune of over 80% of our energy needs....and renewables contributing some 3% of USA electricity at a cost of $50 BILLION for that paltry amount.

One suggestion Paul....why not do your own research? Quit accepting mainstream media as a source of your CAGW 'science'....you might be pleasantly surprised to find that the world will still be quite pleasant in 12 years (h/t AOC). Doesn't it seem a bit odd to you that NONE of the dire predictions of Catastrophic Warming and the companion disasters of the last 30+ years have occurred? How many times will you say....well they will be right this time.

Get some science, will ya!! 

 

Permalink Reply by Coffeeguyzz on June 9, 2019 at 8:22pm

Regarding this entire Renewable Energy Quest within the overall Globull Warming framework ... you all may want to become familiar with 3 magic words that will shortly come to dominate these discussions ... Grand Solar Minimum.

The rapidly growing evidence that we are in the early stages of the GSM is becoming irrefutable.

The highly acclaimed work by Dr. Valentina Zharkova is being both validated and accepted by researchers across the globe.

Events such as the startling reversal of the Jakobshavn glacier are sending Climate Alarmists reeling for palatable explanations.

You Appalachian Basin folks should shortly be sitting in the catbird seat as your hydrocarbons will be embraced by an appreciative world.

Appalachia Rising!

Permalink Reply by Bullfrex on June 9, 2019 at 11:41pm

Indeed Coffeeguyzz…..a noticeably COLDER world.

It will be gratifying when the IPCC finally gives up this CAGW charade....hope I am around to see it!

Artic Sea Ice Extent had stabilized since 2012, and there are more Greenland glaciers growing than there are those receding.

The interstadial may have reached its' zenith....it will be (hopefully) slowly downhill from here to the next stadial period, one with a mile or more of ice covering those gas deposits in northern PA, so "drill baby drill"!! 

Permalink Reply by Bullfrex on June 10, 2019 at 3:11am

I would be very interested in seeing the science behind these looming "flow battery technologies"....would you kindly point me to your source? Inquiring minds want to know.....

Nuclear will be the power generation of choice, but until there is widespread acceptance of that fact and the inherent fear mongering is overcome, research will be stalled because the country will not support it, and regulatory nightmares thwarts the private R&D needed to bring it to fruition.

Until nuclear becomes 'in vogue' again, heavy industry will remain FF powered. The transportation sector may become a hybrid-fueled segment....but I will NEVER ride commercial on an electric powered aircraft...but that is just me

Permalink Reply by farmgas on June 10, 2019 at 4:13am

Oh... never thought about an all electric powered aircraft before!   Is the fuel pump now electric powered?

Permalink Reply by Bullfrex on June 10, 2019 at 8:28am

Thanks OT!

Interesting concept....well, not new, but with an environmental twist.

In a nutshell, it seems that Renewable Aggregators will utilize the water trapped in abandoned coal mines in PA; they will (assumedly) purify the water and use it in a pumped hydro system, capturing Wind Farm generated energy and selling it when renewables do not produce. There must be a serious tax credit proponent to this scheme. I have no clue what it would cost to 'clean up' this coal mine water before use...maybe more tax credits? 

From my understanding, antis are not in favor of hydro power, although this one does have that 'green twist' to it, so who knows.

Their website shows a map of 14 proposed facilities; from their website map, wouldn't you know that one looks to be sited (well, maybe just proposed to be permitted) in East central Tioga Co. PA.

There was another confusing mention of (paraphrasing) "using rail lines to get the power to areas without substantial grid ties"....they lost me with this mention of their business model. Admittedly, the website I found was fairly vague.

This one will bear watching in the future....see where it goes. Thanks again.

Permalink Reply by Bullfrex on June 10, 2019 at 9:21am

OT....I agree

'if the average person who knows very little about their energy system, but with strong opinions, had a one hour simple presentation alot of the insane direction we're headed might be reversed.'

Maybe we could direct the initial training sessions to the journalists....nah, that would never work....

Permalink Reply by Bill Bergseid on June 10, 2019 at 5:34am

Paul, quit regurgitating this pablum.  Please provide a specific tax break or subsidy available to the oil and gas industry.  You can't because there aren't any.  There are deductions, like R&D expenditures, available to all U.S. manufacturing companies.  However, there ARE subsidies to the renewal energy industry.  If I build a wind generator, the government will, in effect, write me check for about 1/3 of the capital costs.  Plus I get a production TAX CREDIT for the energy produced.  Similar subsidies are available for solar.  The "tax breaks" cited by you and the MMS are nothing more than business deductions allowed to all companies.

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