Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on June 27, 2012 at 1:48am

Reason I ask is because I see no sense in signing up with an outfit and tieing up our land for years and finding out that they aren't paying / drilling and then having to go to court for assistance in voiding the 'agreement'.

Land Banking on behalf of a Lessee isn't necessarily a bad thing - as long as they pay the agreed to 'signing bonus'.

Permalink Reply by bo boboski on June 27, 2012 at 10:03am

In Guernsey county; Shell & Carrizo are two who recorded leases,then didnt pay. Gulfport & Anadarko & cheasapeake are paying their leases as promised.  There are others around,but not sure on their dealings. Seems to be better to sign with a smaller O&G co. but big enough to pay & drill. Drill because they HAVE TO, to get their $$$flowing back.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on June 27, 2012 at 1:27pm

Yeah ?

Selling what to Red Communist Chinese ?

Leases or resources ?

Right now Chesapeake Midstream controls resource transportation and sales.

And that's what I meant (in an earlier and different post under the 'general (strictly shale)' discussion) having written then that I thought if Global Infrastructure Partners ends up owning Chesapeake Midstream assets and if they were by default on our (the U.S.A's) side that perhaps it would not be too bad of a deal after all.

All they have to do is deny refinement / transport should we have issues with Red Chinese Communist consumers.

Selling leases to me a bit worse unless Global Infrastructure Partners (if their deal goes through with Chesapeake for Chesapeake Midstream as earlier discussed) ends up with control of what happens to the developed resources and guarantees U.S. interests. Perhaps even worse then as it might be possible that the Landowner wouldn't get paid their Royalties if development were shut-in. It could get very sticky. A sticky wicket as the Brits say.

Control of refinement and transport is very much key.

Global Infrastructure Partners if successful in their deal should be on our (the U.S.A's.) side by default - seems to me that should be part of any deal struck regarding the purchase of Chesapeake Midstream's assets

Permalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on June 27, 2012 at 6:00pm

Hi Joseph...sent you email.     I just thought I would take a look at the discussion here so I briefly joined the group...to add in this discussion.  Saw it on the main page where they show some of the group discussions going on here at gomarcShale.

Chesapeake Midstream is on contract with Global Infrastructure Partners (GIP ..gee wasn't that the nickname of Reagan, oh..gipper was)...but when researching their team I find that there is some questions as to whether they are considered a US company or even U.S. citizen...but there are some Americans on the board and that is my real question is that are we replacing our dependence on foreign oil energy with a dependence on non-citizen owned American resources?

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120608005323/en/Chesapeake-...

this was on another article...

Chesapeake Energy set up the midstream MLP to generate steady distribution growth from drop down assets and the ability to buy up other assets in the areas serviced. Chesapeake Energy is the biggest gas gathering customer for Midstream Partners so if Energy decided to severely cut back production, it would be a problem for the Chesapeake Midstream's cash flow. That outlook seems unlikely and the sales agreement with Global Infrastructure Partners appears to give Chesapeake Midstream Partners the right to buy more assets in the future.

Yet now ENERGY (CHEsapeake) is up for sale...and the Chinese Sinopec is making offers...   so the gateway could be purchased by the chinese while midsteam would be dependent on it?  .... Do I understand that paragraph right?

Yet the article does state that GIP could buy more also

having a limitation to how much a certain group can buy into the network of infrastructure would be a good option for our government to enact.    Such as when the AT& T network developed thru the century...it got so big and monopolized that some deals were made by the govt. to make them divest of some of their holdings...back in 1982 was the big AT&T divesture that did open the door for many companies to own the infrastructure of our telecommunications rather than one large conglomerate.

Hope this helps...worth reading the entire article...talks about what shale it covers and how large the deal is...

Permalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on June 27, 2012 at 6:23pm

Hi Joseph...sent you email.     I just thought I would take a look at the discussion here so I briefly joined the group...to add in this discussion.  Saw it on the main page where they show some of the group discussions going on here at gomarcShale.

Chesapeake Midstream is on contract with Global Infrastructure Partners (GIP ..gee wasn't that the nickname of Reagan, oh..gipper was)...but when researching their team I find that there is some questions as to whether they are considered a US company or even U.S. citizen.  They are considered as a private equity company and have offices in the USA  ...but there are some Americans on the board and that is my real question is that are we replacing our dependence on foreign oil energy with a dependence on non-citizen owned American resources or part U.S. citizens and non- citizens in a private equity company going global?

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120608005323/en/Chesapeake-...

this was on another article...

Chesapeake Energy set up the midstream MLP to generate steady distribution growth from drop down assets and the ability to buy up other assets in the areas serviced. Chesapeake Energy is the biggest gas gathering customer for Midstream Partners so if Energy decided to severely cut back production, it would be a problem for the Chesapeake Midstream's cash flow. That outlook seems unlikely and the sales agreement with Global Infrastructure Partners appears to give Chesapeake Midstream Partners the right to buy more assets in the future.

Yet now ENERGY (CHEsapeake) is up for sale...and the Chinese Sinopec is making offers...   so the gateway could be purchased by the chinese while midsteam would be dependent on it?  .... Do I understand that paragraph right?

Yet the article does state that GIP could buy more also from Chesapeake...

having a limitation to how much a certain group can buy into the network of infrastructure would be a good option for our government to enact.    Such as when the AT& T network developed thru the century...it got so big and monopolized that some deals were made by the govt. to make them divest of some of their holdings...back in 1982 was the big AT&T divesture that did open the door for many companies to own the infrastructure of our telecommunications rather than one large conglomerate.

Hope this helps...worth reading the entire article...talks about what shale it covers and how large the deal is...

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/relations...

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/mergers/cases/decisions/m6508_20120...

Permalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on June 27, 2012 at 7:00pm

Joseph...I finally found the government agency that does oversee international purchases of foreign countries in purchasing assets of the USA...take a look this is the policy guidelines I was looking for.... I  posted it on the main forum also.   Took hours , didn't know what to google...but found this now.   the full report is over 60 pages on a pdf...

I see there is contact numbers on the webpage...perhaps one of us should call them and ask them if they are looking at what Chespeake is trying to do...in selling many if not all of their remaining assets to China?

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-09-608

also... this has much info on this type of discussion.

http://www.shortlistnews.com/PR/USgov/open_economies.htm

Hope you all do well with this topic of discussion...I just stopped by to share some of the research as this topic has become important...and I hope you can see that also.   It seems to me that anyone holding our leases in our shale areas is sitting on more than a gold mine...and apparently for many years perhaps indefinitely....why is it that some of us landowners didn't see that initially...hope we can now.   It may be that our leases may be the only way to gain control again of our natural resources...that is why this topic needs discussed and some that can do something about it...do.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on June 28, 2012 at 12:58am

I'm thinking all of this 'cloak and dagger' stuff is more than a bit much, however, I think I'm beginning to see through the smoke. What good it does me remains to be seen.

From my perspective as a Landowner, I can see advantage for a 'Marketeer' to not be straight forward and forthcoming regarding who their prospective clients (the developer outfits that they are trying to sell signed Acreage to are) since individual Landowners and competitor 'Marketeers' may choose to contact the same developer outfits thereby undermining their competitive edge.

I can see that the Leasehold Agreement they (some 'Marketeers') are trying to sell is probably in flux and dependent on how many Acres and Landowners they have signed - thereby making it unlikely they (some 'Marketeers') would want to disclose the Leasehold Agreement they are trying to negotiate to prospective Landowner clients (as the Leasehold Agreement up for sale could change during the process of negotiation).

What's troubling is that as I read other posts I'm seeing that the Point Pleasant Utica Shale Play Leasing phase has been going on for quite a while - in other areas of our State actual development is taking place - and that all of these preliminary posturing techniques (by now in my humble estimation) should be practically standard operating procedure and much more efficient.

I find it all totally aggravating and 'Landowner Hostile' by 'abject neglect' playing Landowners as pawns.

Permalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on June 28, 2012 at 4:39am

If it was just a few land owners...if it was just a few acres of shale play....if it was assigns to only USA companies or just shares to foreign investors not the whole play...

then maybe it wouldn't matter.   But we are talking about the entire development of ALL our shale across America. And this has never been done before in such a manner as affecting many states across the USA and in the past it was that the US companies still held the working interest and the control over the shares of the leases...,but now they are selling their working interest by selling all their assets.     And that it is in some places already, and will be soon on paper in the hands of ownership of other countries.  

From the financial point of view for our USA it is a disgrace because the government and the landowners have no more control over who has the lease.....from the financial point of view for a few companies making the profit (they think it doesn't matter) this is a good thing for them....from the view of our children and their children it could be the biggest bondage financially for all of their lives to be dependent on foreign companies owning the energy shale plays of America and the transport and processing center architecture.  Remember the pipeline infrastructure is still in its infancy and the connection to Canada will still happen eventually and the same Sinopec is buying up infrastructure in gas/oil in Canada and have done already.  No doubt this will bring more jobs into America...,which is great....but the employees will be working for China and will China pay the wages that Americans expect or will they bring in their laborers on green cards?   you see, this isn't all worked out to be what Americans thought leasing our natural resources to Chespeake and other gas/oil companies was doing to get the USA off dependence on other countries.

btw...this isn't cloak and daggr....it is visible and legal and not hidden...even Global Infrastructure isn't hiding what they are doing with their goals to buy up infrastructure across the planet....Not hidden at all.   but again, is this what the average American US citizen wants or do they want their government to look into the situation and make new rules or enforce existing ones...the bulk of the leasing is already done...whoever owns the leases owns the future of natural gas in America.

Joseph did you read some at the link I posted above about the USA policy on such....it does say energy  but doesn't define (at least in the little I have read at that link yet) gas and oil.   Yet there is a policy in place but has anyone tried to enforce it is the question?

The leases are the key for the owner to still maintain USA sovereignty and for the lessor to maintain some control over who is extracting the resources and how long that can go on ...,.but if it is not defined on the lease about such...then those leases are like giving out thousands and thousands upon thousands of keys to the USA for anyone to take advantage of  from anywhere on the planet...sorta like if a homeowner gave out keys to his house to just his relatives but gave them liberty to give keys to others...if his relatives only charged admission for a profit and did not want to limit who they gave a key to....that access is unquestionably as many that obtain a key.    Rather if that same homeowner only gave keys to whom he knew he could trust and told them not to give keys to others without his permission...then he has no control to whom has a key to his house and his only recourse is to have the lock changed at his expense.     Who could change 'the key entry' of the house in this example of the USA having leases sold to whomever when that whomever has actually bought the lock entry that the key fits into is different than the homeowner who could just change the lock thereby a new key.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on June 28, 2012 at 1:44pm

Maybe there's not that much cloak and dagger going on in your neck of the woods, but in mine the Play is rife with it if you ask me.

They're all trying to pull the wool over the Landowner's eyes in one manner or another; Marketeers, Prospective Lessees, Developers alike.

Lessor Beware is the name of the game; to repeat Lessor Beware.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on July 1, 2012 at 12:34am

'btw...this isn't cloak and daggr....it is visible and legal and not hidden...even Global Infrastructure isn't hiding what they are doing with their goals to buy up infrastructure across the planet....Not hidden at all. but again, is this what the average American US citizen wants or do they want their government to look into the situation and make new rules or enforce existing ones...the bulk of the leasing is already done...whoever owns the leases owns the future of natural gas in America.'

I'm of the belief that if there's no quick buck in it for the average American US citizen then the average American US citizen doesn't give a hoot.

I'm also of the belief that the average American landowner feels much the same way.

I'm also of the belief that the average American citizen or landowner believes that the checks and balances already installed would prohibit such from happening in our land - in other words ignorant of the tactics, greed and inclination of their own elected lawmakers / politicians while (the citizenry) being also pre-occupied with trying to earn a living in a totally hostile economy.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on June 30, 2012 at 6:17am

I think I'm reading too much into the reasons I'm not hearing more about payouts and development action and especially not hearing more about payouts and development action in the 'potentially high yield core areas' of the play. I think I've been giving the land companies and developers too much credit insofar as credibility (in actual development) is concerned.

Plainly said, I think (even at this point in time - seemingly well into things on a chronological basis) it's more about tieing up the landowner's mineral rights and re-selling them at great profit than going after the resources and getting off the foreign oil wagon - no matter who your developer / land company happens to be.

Alot less liability involved in selling a leasehold as opposed to building out the deep vertical and horizontal wells.

If things were different than I suspect, I would expect this post to be loaded with a plethera of listings / good information.

Lessor / Landowner Beware is still my catch phrase of choice.

Permalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on July 2, 2012 at 7:41am

it's more about tieing up the landowner's mineral rights and re-selling them at great profit than going after the resources and getting off the foreign oil wagon - no matter who your developer / land company happens to be.

Exactly...that is why know that the truth be known...then let's all start concentrating on their real ultimate goals...the selling out of America's resources and infrastructure as they are not loyal to their Amercian citizenship (they sold investments in the leases and now the big toys...their infrastructure of machinery and land holdings, etc to NON citizens).   I came across a website with info that spoke about how Chesapeake was organizing and deliberately trying to put their assets up for sale so China  could buy them but at the same time minding the fact that the USA trade laws/governmental accountability to foreign control in America are maneurvered around...so that they could still do it but not get in trouble with the Fed about it.   What kind of loyal citizenship to the USA is that companies frame of mind with those kind of intents?...the same company that did what you said above (but they are not the only ones that did such)

it's more about tieing up the landowner's mineral rights and re-selling them at great profit than going after the resources and getting off the foreign oil wagon - no matter who your developer / land company happens to be.

Which brings up this very important subject just released on worldly media...

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/06/29/248512/us-spares-china-singapo...

What is China using against the USA that they would go against their own decisions regarding Iran?   you see China may have bought some debt...but why is it the collateral may the the entire USA and even the votes of Congress and the decisions of the Pres. and his cabinet?   what's going on.....meanwhile deals are being made to sell the USA infrastructure of gas/oil.

Since China is doing what it will to protect itself by selling and buying with Iran and Saudi and whomever....why does the average American citizen think that China would do better with their own marcellus and utica and other shale plays with owning the leases and infrastructure?...better than having those assets under US control?

why don't they voice themselves to the US government or those agencies that may prohibit these sales before they happen....I tell you China is getting ready to own the 2nd larges infrastructure of natural gas /oil in America....then they will have the oil for themselves rather than buying from Iran...??   but the flimsy assigns clause on most our Landowner contracts can give China the right to sell the leases to Iran or whomever they want....is that ok with you all?   Is any one reading these discussions and becoming aware but a few ?   There are over 13k members at the gomarcellusshale forum...where is some input except from a few mockers who do not even read the discussion posts.   I am glad for the few that do care....thank you.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page