Columbiana County Pipeline

This site has been very helpful in educating landowners about shale drilling and leasing.....Lately I have seen some discussion on pipelines and ROWs but not a great deal of information ...it appears this is the next new horizon where we can help each other out.  

Today an agent for a broker in New Philadelphia...William C Abel...knocked on my door talking about the pipeline that is going to be built from the East Palestine area to Hannoverton.   Negotiations have been going on since March and it seems most of the agreements needed have been signed.   The only reason he was here was because they have moved the planned route and it now includes my property....and they are planning to walk the route starting tomorrow and rightly so...he realized he needed to talk to me first.

This is the same line that includes the county lands recently signed which was in the Mourning Journal and posted here.   I know this because the agent mentioned it...noting they paid them $12 a foot.....what he would be offering me if they decide to use the amended route...and I agreed.

I see from a message sent out to those who are members of this list that someone else was also approached recently.   

While tbere has been a bit of discussion regarding pipelines...I dont recall much back in March when surely folks were being approached... i see this like gas leasing...lets come out of the closet on this and not play into the hands of these agents who are like landmen and would prefer we dont talk to each other.

I did check out the agreement posted on the ALOV site....it looks pretty good and a better alternative to what I am sure the form agreement is that these agents offer first.   I would appreciate any comments on what you guys think of tge provisions included.

Company building the pipeline is Cardinal Gas Services....he admitted, yes a subsidiary of Cheasapeake....saving they are from Canton, Oh.....A little slippery like a landman....telling me what he thinks I want to hear...bending the truth...as Chk does have an office there.

The agent and I didnt talk seriously yet... I asked him basic prices he was talking and he quoted the $12 like the county paid.   I asked about pipe depth and he said 3 feet...while I countered that 4 seemed more reasonable and matched what I have in my gas lease.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Linda Charles on July 14, 2012 at 11:55pm

Mike,   if you go to ALOV website there is a pipeline lease there you can look at.  Like some of the gas leases it includes a clause that the pipeline company would have to pay any increases of property tax due to the installation of the line.   I assume its property tax increases you were referring to in your question.      What was the offer they gave you, if you dont mind me asking? Did they ask permission to walk your land?  They were walking Thursday and Friday and supposed to resume Monday having gotten to the area of the Wallace well....so they should be close to your land.    It obvious this line is linking to the new wells being drilled...passing westward to Hannoverton to the proposed plant there.

Permalink Reply by Mike Powell on September 12, 2012 at 3:58am

Was this for the Logtown pipleline? Did they say this is for a gathering pipeline or a transmission/etc... Did they give you a diamter of the pipe etc... I seem to be getting low balled, only offering $15 per foot and $2.50 per foot for damages.

Permalink Reply by Linda Charles on September 12, 2012 at 5:10am

Mike,     Interesting tbat they even offered a damages price....I was told no seperate amount stating its included.   Did they agree to pay this again when they come back and dig again for the second line?    I was told they would not.   Nor if they dig again for maintainence.   My understanding is they will be putting in two lines.....this is already planned.   And running temporary water lines to assist with fracking wells.   They already do this in Pa.    Fresh water only....... no production water with chemicals.

Permalink Reply by Inchworm antenna on September 13, 2012 at 6:15pm

Whatever the pipe per foot / size rate is I would also indicate that after one year the rate will be adjusted accoring to the annual inflation rate.  That way if my kids/ grandkids end up with new pipe at $15 it will essentially be worth the same to them.  An earlier post here tells the story of a 1901 easement with a 1 cent/ foot rate that someone now wants to lay new pipe in Yuck.  Forward Think!

Permalink Reply by Ron S on July 31, 2012 at 3:17am

In addition to the ALOV easement and right of way agreement for a gas pipeline http://alov.us/images/Lease_with_notes.pdf

another good resource is a paper by Eric C Camp out of Fort Worth Texas http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/35533607?profile... .

My father was recently approached and told $12 a linear foot but that the person he talked to could go as high as $15 a linear foot. He was also told about a signing bonus of $500. They have walked the property but are still talking about terms. He is in Wayne Township.

Permalink Reply by Chip Roush on July 31, 2012 at 6:31am

if you don't mind me asking... where at in Wayne Township?  My farm is in Wayne.

0ym9x5ag7ury2Permalink Reply by 0ym9x5ag7ury2 on August 31, 2012 at 3:49pm

The ALOV recommended a Youngstown attorney Anthony Jesko @ 330-744-4137.

My neighbors used a lawyer and had some issues due to the final contract being given to the pipeline "Representative" instead of to my neighbors. The Rep made some changes by scratching through the contract and writing in what their company wanted not what was bet for my neighbor. We agreed its time to find another lawyer when the one you are paying hands over the contract to the company you are having problems with. Who knows of examples where a "Pro" sold out his client for more money? I do, several examples.

Take the time to talk to 3 lawyers and pick the one you trust the most, then watch him closely, its your money not his. 

Land Men, Pipeline Reps, Used Car Salesmen, I see them all cut from the same cloth. When a used car salesman tells me the brakes on a car that I'm buying for my Son are fine, I know the vehicle will need a brake job. He never flinched when he sold me a dangerous vehicle knowing my Son would be driving it. Money took his concious.  When the land man says your neighbor signed the lease, you had better ask your neighbor. We found out that they had not signed. But the landman claimed he didn't tell that story. Hmmm liar, liar.

Money brings out the worst in people, especially when YOU are sitting on a KINGS RANSOM and YOU DON'T KNOW IT.

If you sign a contract written by anyone but your lawyer you will loose money that was rightfully yours and protection you could have had will be gone. If someone pressures you to sign a contract, see your lawyer and find out what they are hiding in the contract. Convert any contract you are asked to sign into a land owner friendly contract. God knows they spent plenty of time wording the contract to short change the landowner and protect the important thing, their company (actually their King, the CEO). Has anyone seen how much the CEOs are taking home lately? I noticed that they no longer include their pay in the annual reports. Could someone be embarrassed? Probably not.

I've read and understood several, no, a large number of oil & gas leases. You wouldn't believe what people have signed and what the company that wrote the leases included. Statements like: Failure of the Leasee to comply with this lease does not invalidate or termnate this lease. You must notify us of our failure to abide by the terms of this agreement at which time we will have 60 days to take action to remedy your complaint. It would be unethical of me to write a contract and include a clause that says I don't have to follow the terms of the contract. Remember, Money brings out the worst in people. 

0ym9x5ag7ury2Permalink Reply by 0ym9x5ag7ury2 on September 10, 2012 at 2:58pm

It's possible that pipelines will criss cross Columbiana County over the next several years as the oil and gas fields are developed in our area. I will make sure any Pipeline Contract I sign has the following statements similar to the alov.us website. By doing so, every time someone wants to cross my property, they will deal with me and not a pipeline company that had me sign a contract giving them ownership of my right of way to resell to others, as in my neighbors Cardinal proposed contract. The contract should specify what is being transported, gas, oil, water, etc. The contents of the pipeline will determine the price per foot as well as the diameter of pipe.

If the pipeline company doesn't like the way I do business, protecting myself, then they can go around me.

 

I'm not interested in stealing money from the various companies doing business in this area, so I would appreciate it if they would stop offering bad contracts to my neighbors. A bad contract signed by a trusting neighbor is the same thing as theft in my opinion. Ask someone before you sign a company's contract, please.   "Money brings out the worst in people".

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4. Purpose and Limitations on Use of Easement. This Easement is granted solely for the purposes and uses set forth and limited below:

 

a. Single Pipeline. This Easement allows one pipeline with a maximum diameter of __________________inches, and with the maximum pressure of product transported within the pipeline of _____ pounds per square inch. The pipeline shall be used only for the transportation of ____________________ unless renegotiated with the Leassor/landowner.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Linda Charles on September 10, 2012 at 3:47pm

Your suggestions are very valid.   I believe alot of folks are getting taken on this pipeline deal.   As I understand it some of my neighbors signed the boilerplate easement without amendments and this concerns me.

Ron, you mentioned an attorney above and ALOV.   I am curious why you didnt mention Wenger who represented ALOV during gas leasing.   Has anyone had any experience with him or the firm he works for in negotiating pipeline agreements.   I was told the other day they have negotiated for some folks pipeline agreements.   I would be interested in what peoples experience has been.   Also, if you signed an agreement for this Logtown pipeline.....did you get amendments and restrictions on the number of lines and time of construction, etc?

0ym9x5ag7ury2Permalink Reply by 0ym9x5ag7ury2 on September 11, 2012 at 2:45pm

Linda,

           I contacted the ALOV office in the spring and asked if they were coordinating pipeline right of way contracts. They are not, and recommended A. Jesko, not Wenger. I'm watching to see if Jesko protects my neighbors or sells them out to Cardinal Pipeline, to decide for myself if he is trustworthy.

A lawyer in WV, David B. McMahon, wrote the following that you can find on the internet: 

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   What Land/Surface Owners Should Know When a Landman Shows Up And Wants an easment/Right of Way To Put a Pipeline Across Your Land.

Prepared by David B. McMahon • Attorney at Law

Concentrating in Oil and Gas for Smaller Mineral Owners

1624 Kenwood Road, Charleston, WV 25314

Voice/VoiceMail 304-415-4288 • Fax 810-958-6143

E-mail: wvdavid@wvdavid.net

© May, 2010. David B. McMahon, J.D.

Contact the author for permission to distribute.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I called David's office and he recommended another attorney for Ohio since he doesn't work outside of WV. Below is the email response from Greg Brunton that was recommended. You can copy the info on how to contact him. I predict my neighbors and I will end up using Greg.

__________________________________________________________________________

From: Gregory D. Brunton GBrunton@reminger.com>

Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:15 PM

Subject:RE: Pipeline Leases In Columbiana County OH


Ron,
I will be glad to discuss these matters with you and your neighbors.  You can have them email me or my direct line is below if you or your neighbors want to call.
Thanks,
Greg
Gregory D. Brunton, Esq. - 614-232-2632 (direct) Reminger Co., L.P.A.

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Linda, Take a look at Davids write up on pipeline right of ways and give Greg an email or call if you need a Pipeline lawyer. As always, keep a close eye on any lawyer to determine if he is protecting you or selling you out to the company you are dealing with. Its easy for them to play both sides and make the deal that suits them best, but only if you let them.   Ron Hale

 

Permalink Reply by Linda Charles on September 11, 2012 at 3:27pm

Thanks for posting this Ron.   I have read McMahons paper....it is very informative and worth reading.  where is Greg Brunton located?    I see from the recorders site Cardinal has been recording alot of easement agreements.   Im concerned that folks have been taken advantage of again....just like when leases were completed five years ago for a pittance compared to todays rates.    Pipeline development is so new in the county...and I agree with you Ron...they are going to need alot of pipelines.   This is still growing in PA.

0ym9x5ag7ury2Permalink Reply by 0ym9x5ag7ury2 on September 12, 2012 at 1:55pm

Linda,    Greg Brunton is in Columbus, OH. with Reminger Co.

I'll contact him when I hear back from the pipeline company that did a survey on my property near Summitville, OH for a 36" pipeline into Southern OH. 

If they need a right of way across my property, I'll start talking to lawyers early so I can pick one I can trust to work for me (the landowner) only.

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