Seismic testing in Hookstown... HELP ?

We had a man  come to our farm  today and wanted us to sign papers to let them do Seismic testing on our farm.  The mans name was Mike Allstead from SEITEL, out of Monaca, PA. He offered us $5.00 per acre on our 76 acre farm. They want to dig 40 3 inch round holes , 30 ft. deep, put blasting powder in the holes . ( My Husband talked to the man, I was not here)  He told the man he needs to talk with me. I am to call him and set up a time after the Holidays to sign the papers. The man needs to come back and draw where the buildings and ponds are, on our property.  Has anyone else been aproached by this  company ? ANY information would be appreciated ! Not sure what to do ? Confused..... Many Thanks in advance for your information !

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Permalink Reply by Bill F. on January 5, 2013 at 2:34am

@ WVU78 .....yes I don't like the fact that Bradford County has changed ,but this is secondary to the health issues not being addressed here .Again I was told by the head inspector for N.C. PA . that there is not much they can do about silica dust sand .They do check on complaints but are limited .If you were a supervisor for oil and gas I would like to know who you are so I can check on this .Prove to me that you are what you say and I am wrong .Your telling me online you were an inspector doesn't cut it ,sorry .

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 12:11pm

Ref post by Jack Straw:

"Actually it appears that fracing has done much to clean up PA's groundwater:

The well testing that has been promoted prior to and subsequent to fracing has shown many people that leaking septic tanks and surface run-off from dairy, beef cattle, horse, pig and poultry operations have been polluting their household water wells."

That's odd since pre-fracking testing does not test for bacteria and I have yet to read where anyone has accused the gas industry of inducing bacteria into their wells.  This testing (bacteria) is NOT part of the recommended testing for pre-fracking.  The closest the testing gets it to determine hardness and PH levels... neither of which would indicate leaking septic or farm run off from dairy, cattle, pig or horse operations.  The most pre-fracking testing MIGHT find is arsenic from a poultry operation, but PA and OH do not have massive poultry operations that could create the arsenic levels that you see in AR.

The well testing that has been promoted prior to and subsequent to fracing has shown many people that shallow biogenic methane and methane from the shallow coal measures are present in their water wells and (for their safety) their wells need to be vented.

So, you recognize methane gas in wells as a problem?  Correct?  So, when methane levels go from 0.02 prior to gas industry activities... then rise to 65 after gas industry activity... can you see why people think that the gas industry activities may have been the cause?

The well testing that has been promoted prior to and subsequent to fracing has shown many people that harmful minerals (including arsenic) from the shallow coal measures are present in their wells

Just a nit-pick... since you all are such experts... arsenic is not a mineral.  It is classed as a semi-metal and usually referred to (and found as) as a heavy metal pollutant.

For those who are interested in recommended testing, this is what Ohio recommends: 

www.ohiodnr.com/portals/11/.../water_well_sampling_fact_sheet.pdf  (PDF file)

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 4, 2013 at 12:53pm

RE: "This testing (bacteria) is NOT part of the recommended testing for pre-fracking."

You might want to check this out:

http://www.watertestamerica.com/water-tests-for-natural-gas-drillin...

Ohio EPA recommends all shale drilling tests include at least these parameters:

Barium
Benzene (BTEX)
Bromide
Calcium
Chloride
Conductivity
Ethylbenzene (BTEX)

Hardness
Iron
Magnesium
Manganese
Methane (dissolved)
pH
Potassium

Sodium
Strontium
Sulfate
Toluene (BTEX)
Total Alkalinity
Total dissolved solids
Total suspended solids
Xylene (BTEX)

Also Recommended:
Arsenic
Nitrate
Escherichia coli (E. coli) bacteria

RE: "since you all are such experts... arsenic is not a mineral."

Just a nit-pick...you might want to tell these people that they should not refer to arsenic as a mineral:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Arsenic_minerals

http://www.minerals.net/mineral/arsenic.aspx

http://www.eoearth.org/article/Secondary_arsenic_minerals_in_the_en...

OBTW, I forgot to mention how the discovery of Nitrates (from fertilizers) can save lives.
Excess Nitrates in well or Spring water can cause miscarriages in humans and livestock.

Thanks kbrooks for once again spreading false information.

Anti-fracers (like pseudo-sandstorms) should only come out at night - their claims cannot withstand the light of day.

 

JS

 

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 1:21pm

I can tell you from personal, first hand experience that your information about E.coli is wrong (it is NOT part of the O&G recommended testing.  It IS part of well water annual testing, but O&G testing has little to do with that).  ODNR does not recommend any bacteria testing in relation to O&G.  Second, e.coli is not the only bacteria that is an issue in well water or that indicate farm run off.

You have combined all possible testing from tiers 1 though 3 into one thing as if they are all the same.  ODNR recommends tier 1 (and O&G are only testing tire 1) in Ohio.  Tiers 2 and 3 are only recommended on specific poor outcomes from tier 1 tests (e.g. if you test positive for methane in your water, they recommend through Tier 3 testing).  Remember, these tests run between $14 - $60 each... they are not free. 

I don't know who Water Test America is... but I have already provided a link to Ohio's own information.  Perhaps you could read that.  It isn't impossible to believe that a site would lump all the information they want together for the sake of selling water testing services.

So, again, both sides of this argument mis-use or simply abuse information in trying to make their side sound grounded in science.

Since most farms already test wells annually and I'm calling BS on the idea the O&G testing is somehow cleaning up the wells in the areas where they operate.

Second, methane and fluids migration do not happen over night.  When all of those wells are testing clean in 5 or 6 years, then I might agree with you that O&G operations are safe.  But as it stands, this form of drilling using these materials is less than a decade old.  We have no idea of how their operations will hold up in the long run.  Then there are the effects of associated activities (e.g. increased truck traffic carrying industry fluids, gathering/pipe activities that are breaking out of hillsides with drilling mud, etc). 

Anyone who claims O&G activities are perfectly safe are just as deluded as those who claim it will end up blowing us all to kingdom come.  I see no difference in credibility between the two sides.

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 4, 2013 at 1:21pm

RE: "I have already provided a link to Ohio's own information.  Perhaps you could read that."

I would read it if it exists somewhere other than in your imagination.

 

OBTW kbrooks, the link I provided works.

It appears that the webpage your link went to either does not exist, or was removed due to their having discovered errors.

Wake up and smell the mercaptans (clean, green methane is colorless and odorless).

 

JS

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 1:47pm

Try this link. 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&sour...

Or Google "ODNR Water Sampling Fact Sheet" without the quotes.

My links are to Ohio Dept of Natural Resources... not at all in my imagination... sorry that the first link didn't work. 

My links are a tad bit different than linking to some company in NJ or a subsidized pundit site or to an activist site. 

You should "wake up" and admit your own bias.  Both sides of this argument are doing nothing but shouting your standard diatribes... no matter how many holes they have in them.

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 1:25pm

Ref Arsenic. We're talking about water contamination... good Lord... next you'll tell me that the O&G operations are enabling people to find hydrogen in their wells and making them become millionaires selling off unused hydrogen.

Yup, another example of false information.

For those looking at lab tests, the linked company above (Water Test America) is not an approved lab in Ohio (neither for chemicals or microbial tests).  Also, they're approach (you fill up a bottle and mail it to them) would not work well with chain of evidence, should you ever need to use the results in litigation.  (Basically, anything could contaminate the samples).  Here is where you can find labs that are certified in the state of Ohio:  http://www.epa.ohio.gov/ddagw/labcert.aspx

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 4, 2013 at 1:47pm

RE: "Ref Arsenic. We're talking about water contamination"

Actually, Arsenic Compounds can and does constitute water contamination; that is why the Ohio EPA recommends testing for Arsenic.

BTW, the use of the term Arsenic is commonly understood to refer to  Arsenic Compounds. In nature, Elemental Arsenic is a relatively rare beast.

 

RE: "next you'll tell me that the O&G operations are enabling people to find hydrogen in their wells and making them become millionaires selling off unused hydrogen."

No, that must be a myth the anti-fracers are trying to sell ... free hydrogen!

kbrooks, there are no hydrogen wells.

Surprisingly, there are Nitrogen wells and there are CO2 wells ... and people have gotten rich from them.

Let me know when you get tired of making a fool of yourself.

The more false information you post (that is so easily shown to be false), the more you lose the little credibility you might still have.

 

OBTW, the Earth Sciences Department at Penn State offer classes in Mineralogy; beginner, indermediate and advanced.

 

JS

 

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 1:55pm

I haven't posted anything that I wouldn't post again.

Hydrogen reference as an element of water - no sense of humor I see :-)

I still stand by my statement:

Your statement that testing as a result of O&G activities
is cleaning up PA ground water is a bunch of crap

Crap aka manure, aka scat... I bet Pen State offers ag and wildlife managment classes where you can learn about those things as well... even in beginner, intermediate (sorry, they probably don't offer inDermediate for lowly ag students) and advanced.

Have a good night and sleep well.

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 4, 2013 at 2:01pm

You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.

You will find this under the heading:

"Recommendations for Water Well Sampling Before Oil and Gas Drilling"

 

"When assessing the overall health of your water well, you may want to consider analyzing for nitrate, arsenic and Escherichia coli

(E. coli) bacteria as these are the most common contaminants of concern in ground water."

http://epa.ohio.gov/Portals/0/general%20pdfs/waterwellsampling.pdf

I got this from following the revised link that you posted.

When you have discovered that you have dug yourself into a hole, it is best to stop digging.

When you discover a webpage on the Ohio EPA (or ODNR) website that states that they DO NOT recommend analyzing for nitrate, arsenic and Escherichia coli ... let me know.

 

JS

 

Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on January 4, 2013 at 2:22pm

When assessing the overall health of your water well, you may want to consider analyzing for nitrate, arsenic and Escherichia coli

AKA - Annual testing that we already do.  As in... if you're going to be paying them to come out anyway... you may as well do these tests also.

Your interpretation (reading comprehension) is the one that is off.

They have not required it of O&G companies and nor recommended it as having anything to do with O&G activities... nor do O&G companies do this testing.  Please, provide me a link to any O&G company that claims to do pre-fracking bacteria testing.

Again, please provide my any example of a fractivist blaming bacteria contamination on O&G activity.

Farmers already test their wells annually or at least bi-annually... so the wonderful of O&G companies are not causing the ground water to be cleaned up from all us filthy farmers who are too stupid to test our water.  Believe it or not, PETA has been after CAFOs for much longer than your precious O&G companies have been dealing with fractivists.

You keep referring to digging a hole... yet the only holes I see are the gaping holes in your argument.

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 4, 2013 at 2:55pm

RE: "Again, please provide my any example of a fractivist blaming bacteria contamination on O&G activity."

Please provide a link to where I ever claimed that a fractivist blamed bacteria contamination on O&G activity. I have simply directly quoted the Ohio-EPA. Again, you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. I do not mind you quoting me, but you weaken your argument by "putting words in my mouth" that were never stated.

 

RE: "Farmers already test their wells annually or at least bi-annually"

Maybe I am just a Hillbillie, but water well/spring owners (on and near farms) in my neck of the woods DO NOT test their well/spring "annually or at least bi-annually". Most are just too busy trying to scape by in a tough economy; and hoping to someday get a good Marcellus Shale well.

You do not sound like a Farmer, you sound like a City Boy (or one of those Gentleman Farmers). In the cities they regularly test the drinking water. In my neck of the woods, it is tough to get by on Farm income alone; farming is something that they do after working a day job and on weekends. If there is some extra money at the end of the year, it will not go for a water test - it will go towards repairing equipment or self.

 

How many acres do you have? And, what are they planted in.

Where is this Farm of yours?

 

JS

 

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