Forced pooling

Ohio has had at least two cases go through the courts on forced pooling. The judge ruled in favor of the gas co. in both cases. Pennsylvania does not allow forced pooling in the Marcellus but does in the Utica!  This could be a good thing if you want a well and everyone around you wants a well except for that one person in the middle that will not lease. But what if the offers you received are not quite where you think they should be and are the one holding out for a little more. Then the courts tell you sorry but the ruling is in favor of the gas co. and not only are they going to drill under your property but you will not receive a bonus payment and you will only get 1/8 royalties.

Any comments   

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by gary smith on March 21, 2013 at 3:11pm

this situation is a good reason to stick with a group.

Permalink Reply by sldouglass on March 22, 2013 at 9:53am
Maybe not the Bonus, but maybe a share of the operator's profits. And operators drilling multi-milion dollar wells do not particularly like having partners.
Permalink Reply by Samuel J. Orr on March 22, 2013 at 10:01am

Can you cite the authority, either the case law, or a particular Pennsylvania Statute that says forced pooling is not allowed for the Marcellus Shale but is for the Utica shale. I am not necessarily doubting what you said, but it is curious that the rule would be different for the Utica than for the Marcellus. Additionally, I note that in some places commercially viable Marcellus Shale overlies commercially viable Utica Shale. What  would be the rule for in that situation?

Permalink Reply by Douglas W on March 22, 2013 at 10:53am

New law is forged every day I guess is the answer, albeit an empty one. I was told by a DEP employee there are more regulations for the Utica than there are for the Marcellus so maybe this partially answers your question about rules being different.

Permalink Reply by David Hunt on March 22, 2013 at 2:12pm

Samuel The authority was a good friend of mine that is employed by the DEP in the oil and gas division and has been for several years.

 Another interesting difference between the Marcellus and the Utica is if a gas Co. drills on my property and your property borders mine and you are not leased they can drill straight down the property line on my side with no setback in the Marcellus. But in the Utica they have to stay at least 300 ft away from an unleased property. I think he said the Marcellus falls under laws that were written in the sixties or seventies and the Utica falls under more recent laws

You may be able to search the DEP website for the laws I am not sure

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on April 8, 2013 at 2:12pm

Sam - it's crazy, isn't it. The very thought of 'being forced' to end up 'leasing your land' -OR basically loose out?! - that IS what that would basically come down to - push come to shove, yes? IF this is so - then an O?G Co. could drill Utica...carry out that scale - but...it's like being 'held hostage'. What a crock.

One of the reasons I even signed the one property was for this very 'possibility' of happening with the ground. I was told by the landman that this 'law' was on the table - and I had read so, too.... It places you in a position of 'do I take the 'bird in hand' - that of taking the 'signing bonus' & better royalty rate...OR 'standing pat' - and seeing what 'come what may'...and possibly kicking yourself later? 

Yes - your 'Marcellus/Utica' overlap Q would be curious to learn the answer to....

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. Have YOU heard of this 'Octopus drilling' by any chance? Oil & Gas Trader - what do you think of it?...one fella said it's been around for years - AND is being used in PA&OH (?) - where?...then I asked an O&G - and they hadn't heard anything about it...go figure.

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on April 8, 2013 at 3:27pm

WHERE do you want me 'to go', Jesse-D?...if I recall a saying from youth...'if you can't take the heat - get out of the kitchen'...Troll - ain't that something like calamari or somethin'? Set me straight on that one - THEN on to something IMPORTANT - like something to do concerning  important, advantageous shale info.... While you're at it - how about Escargot? or Prawns?...by the way - none of them are good in OIL (of the crude kind...), but DO use NG to 'heat them up'...

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. What a gentleman - maybe YOU should 'take your own advice'?...just par for the course.

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on April 12, 2013 at 3:13pm

WHO are you, Jesse? What do YOU 'contribute' except YOUR 'tantrums'? My gas is as good as yours - or should I say 'hot air'?...touche'...

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. Tit for Tat...it is YOU who...simpleton? Never mind.... make up your own mind for YOURSELVES, USA PEOPLE! I can take the 'hotheads' on this site - YOU need to learn to SIFT for yourselves. ENDEAVOR.

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on April 12, 2013 at 3:08pm

David - have land elsewhere - and heard the same thing. Interesting what Sam Orr said concerning the Marcellus vs. Utica...it IS a turbulent issue - if anything, for the LANDOWNER'S MIND. Somewhat unnecessary torture (to the landowner...) if you ask me. Check mate to the mind - there wasn't THIS kind of information (GMS) for people until *not too long ago! *Remember THAT!...and It has *expanded!!!

There's more than enough land to go around...how about THIS thought - that IF there is 'forced pooling', then the $/acre bonus IS granted - it is a combination of ALL of the $/acre paid for all the other acreage IN the 'drilling unit' divided by # of total acres = amount of 'bonus $/acre' for the landowner (***OR minimum of $500/acre bonus to 'forced pool' landowner...they ARE being 'FORCED'! - should be compensated! not penalized for 'holding out' for what THEY believe is RIGHT!) - SAME goes with the 'royalty%'...or however...but the landowner should NOT be 'penalized' like that.

----------------------------------

Yes, Gary Smith - it IS good to 'stick with a group' - but from what I am hearing, these 'groups' can be quite large. THAT is not bad, BUT here is an additional idea that may also aid in individual landowner's getting what's right for themselves...

Let's take Mercer Co. - bad news!...and the same 'Co.' operating in Crawford?...Hmmm - buyer beware.

Crawford Co. - how many acres? Big area, right? 'WELL'...within these 'landgroup' things - there are people from 'x', 'y', 'z' township...if possible - units of 'neighbors' OF those various townships could 'band together' into MANAGEABLE areas of 640 +/- (one square mile...acreage...) acres. THIS  - compartmentalizing land areas (leased AND unleased...grouping them together previously...simplification)...MAY be an advantage & manageable solution to getting things RIGHT for the LANDOWNER is (for landowners!) what it's ALL about!

Think it over...may be a solution - if it doesn't already exist. Always good to take the bull by the horns & NOT be a 'captive audience' (but sometimes - push come to shove DOES take precedence...check mate.).

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness.

Permalink Reply by sldouglass on April 17, 2013 at 10:41am
But you retain an operating interest and get a share of what the producer gets after the contribution you would have made to drilling costs is earned back with interest. You end up with both a royalty interest and a producer interest. The producers are not interested in having partners like this. They will be trying to get a new statute that is favorable to the industry at some point. Too bad there is no strong landowner lobbying group.
Permalink Reply by Bob Jenness on April 23, 2013 at 12:58am

Sam,

Amen to the "lobbying group" prayer.  I constantly wonder why our landowner groups don't grab hold of this opportunity, or perhaps spin off such a group.  There are so many topics ripe for some landowner-centric communications to OUR Governments.

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on August 13, 2013 at 4:05pm

...Been a while, been quite some 'time' now (but NOT 'LONG' in the 'essence of 'time' itself, eh?...)...all around the mulberry bush...the O & G Co. are signin' & drillin'...and 'pop' goes the GAS WELL top! (and all that sweet crude + gushes out the wellhead...and WHERE/WHO are 'the weasels'?

Corbett, Shell Hillcorp, HalCON, frack til you crack (to the bone...)...nothin' like a good T-Bone, slim pickins, squeeze the landowner bone dry...the law is 'on your side' for EVERY 'last dime' - so the 'offering plate' gets passed around, EVERYONE 'give/do/DONATE' your share...so the rich can just get richer (while your children just sit humbly & blankly stare). Over the river & through the woods - across (under & over) YOUR LAND we'll go...to lay down the pipe that carries the SLUDGE to refiners of this sideshow...NOW everything's good. All is 'WELL' & fine...just be humble & overly understanding, and you'll get yours in your own good time.

Just can't get enough - no...they just can't get enough (NO, they can't)...just can't get enough - GIVE IT HERE! They JUST CAN'T 'get enough' (of YOU & yours...). Turnips from the stone...Arthur pulled the sword from the stone (so can you...)....so close - and yet, so, SO 'far away'...you CAN'T always get what you W-ant,,,(no you can't!...BUT you sure can TRY!)...just CAN'T always get WHAT YOU W-A-NT...but you sure can cry...sticks & stones will break my bones but gas wells shall never hurt me....

Nobody loves me, everybody hates me...guess I'll go eat worms - big fat little ones...little wee skinny ones...oh, how my heart yearns...BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR - YOU MIGHT just 'get it'...they just don't 'get it'. 

The French Revolution, the War of 1812, the War of Independence, the Civil War, WWI, Russian Revolution...on & on & on...make sense of this, make sense of that...the more things change - the more they stay the same...Change & Adapt...to each their own? Oh, yes - to each their own. Yes, yes - that's it (ask Corbett - he agrees...)...time DOES tell...I think. What do YOU think? No one likes the feeling of being held tight 'in a cage'....

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so one light lights another. *Interesting re-reading older 'posts/writings' & THEN where 'things are NOW GOING'...what has changed/what has stayed the same...very, very interesting...reading & *noting the dates of various writings and then reading 'current posts' which THEN become 'yesterday's news'...only the 'good things' stay the same. ***read through these posts...what was 'said/unsaid'...WHERE are we now?...

Four foods that lats forever...honey, sugar, rice, & salt - perfect makings of the latest, greatest 'monster mash'! - add a drop of oil to the mix & what do ya' got? G&O slop!

WATCH...be wise. There is MUCH UNKNOWN afoot in them thar' hills...protect your own - no one else will. Still think that there is MUCH 'unsaid' in the 'plans' of O&G 'men' concerning 'you & yours' ownership of property...ALWAYS found it bizarre how I-79 crossed over Geneva swamp...believe a Senator or Governor owned that 'swamp property' AFTER buying it *ON THE CHEAP from the farm owners...and THEN, miraculously I-79 just happened to get built *RIGHT ACROSS that SWAMPY AREA...think about that. Just something to think about....

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