Can a company horizontal drill under my land without a lease?

As I continue to educate myself on this site, questions come to mind.  What is stopping a driller from a nearby site from drilling into my shale without a lease.  Also, how close can they frack near my property to "steal" gas and oil?

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Permalink Reply by Dan on March 24, 2013 at 2:56am

Joseph,

I agree.  But we don't even know which companies will have this technology.  Should a proppant manufacturer producing some new nano isotope proppant be required to disclose who purchases it?  It's hard to know everything a landowner needs in a lease today.  Tomorrow looks like it will be filled with even more lawyers.

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on March 24, 2013 at 3:14am

I think (if possible) we landowners just need to know whose ground ultimately contributes to the drilling / production unit and those landowners paid a righteous signing bonus and royalty.

That much ought not to be held as a secret that can be used to hijack a landowner's natural resources.

Personally, it doesn't much matter to me what proppant is employed to facilitate the fracturing process - just so long as it does no harm to the land / landowner(s) / the public. 

It's never been my bent to complicate things unneccessarily - thinking there's enough fodder for the 'litigationists' among us just the way it is.  Leases are complicated enough !

I wish more of us would see it that way.

Once again just my opinions on it all. 

Permalink Reply by melissa humphrey on March 23, 2013 at 8:24am

Yes, an operator can drill under unowned leases or unleased land. It is a physical function. Point and bore.   2) YOU want to HoPE this happens, because it represents subsurface trepassing and by doing so, you are in an ideal position.  a. gas producer by the operator must be aportioned to you, only adjusted by lifting and well maintaince costs  b. in 2 words- 100% royalty  3) Sadly, more likely the operator will likely extract value by offering a lease with very high bonus and at a min, a firm royalty rate. Depending where you are, you may be offered 25,000/A and 20%R .

Property Law falls under state statutes. There is no federal law.

**Public forums are inhabited by some with bad or self serving objectives, by some with good intentions but do harm and by some with good intentions, whom do help.

With this mix as the backdrop, anyone who wishes to be responsible in looking after their affairs, need to investigate and verify before making decisions which will effect their well being.

 

Here is hoping.  

Permalink Reply by Frank Walker on March 23, 2013 at 3:05pm

I enjoy seeing re-hashed this stuff that was of such great concern to me three or four years ago, before I leased.

For the OP and others, since having leased my thinking has progressed to new realms which nevertheless are related.  To wit:

For the OP, and myself prior to leasing, the focus of concern is/was draining of our gas with compensation going to another party.  Now that I've leased there's not a care in the world . . right?

Not at all.

It's very nearly as bad as before I leased.  Here is why:

I have land in units, only partially developed so far, which lie adjacent to units not containing my land but which have been fully developed.

The simple act of leasing land does not change the land physically.  Leasing does not magically eliminate naturally occurring fissures and fractures to which I earlier made reference.  Leasing can not, and does not, close down the flow of free gas way down there.  So my land is leased.  Big whoop.  Because the unit adjacent is producing gas like mad, my unit is not, and with virtual metaphysical certitude a measurable amount of "my" gas is flowing to the other unit's wellhead(s) without my getting paid a dime for it!!!!!!!!!!

For me this realization came after I had thought through the leasing-related potential gas loss.  That is to say, I never saw this coming.  I simply was not smart enough, and besides my attention was diverted by matters and issues such as those posed here by the OP.

In addition, and to be fair to myself, this type of draining without payment that I'm outlining here has been exacerbated by the ongoing gas glut with the resultant HBP-only drilling, etc..  All that happened after I leased, and I never saw it coming.  Obviously, when reality finally dawned on me I was not especially happy.  But there's nothing I can do;  nothing I'm aware of, anyway.

The irony, though, to go back to the OP, is that like him I was worried three or four years ago about losing gas without payment if I did not lease timely.  As things have turned out, I leased timely but have lost gas without payment anyway!!  

Permalink Reply by Roger Leight on March 26, 2013 at 3:51am

I am not an attorney so this is subject to legal interpretation. PA oil & gas Act (58 P.S. ss 601.101-601.605) Application for permitting for a well the well must be 330' from unleased property unless request is made & accepted during permitting process. Natural gas flows freely into most shallow wells but the Marcellus Shale is very dense & hard with the gas being locked into small & even microscopic pores in the shale. To release the gas Fracking needs to be done to release the gas so it can flow. If the well bore is not perfed & fracked along the property or edge of the leased premises the gas will not have a way to flow from the outlaying property.  

Permalink Reply by Dan on March 26, 2013 at 5:13am

What if the area has natural fractures within or above or below?

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on March 26, 2013 at 5:34am

Gotta find them and get paid for their contribution to the recovered resource.

Is it possible to know ?

If so it behooves everyone to find out !

Permalink Reply by Brandon Nuttall on March 26, 2013 at 3:58am
Folks, I'm a geologist in Kentucky. There are three things to consider: 1) the Rule of Capture gives the right of ownership of certain commodities if you reduce it to possession. 2) Correlative rights establish who has rights to what is is being captured. This is the basis for both spacing regulations and pooling (or "unitization"). And, 3) the desire for efficiency and profitability (produce a maximum amount with the least cost). In the case of horizontal wells in Kentucky, to be permitted they must comply with spacing guidelines that require offsets to existing producing wells and mineral ownership boundaries (which may be drilling units). The well must meet spacing requirements from the point it enters the pay formation, along the lateral, and to the final landing point. Then, a deviation survey must be submitted to show the "as built" trajectory of the well. Having met the spacing guidelines, what is produced at the wellhead is reduced to capture and is owned as established by any lease agreements in force.
2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on March 28, 2013 at 6:53am

*FRANK - just replied to YOUR: 'Can this PIPElINE ROW be Voided?' discussion. Again - congratulations on your success. Pray that YOU are satisfied & at peace with the decision. I sometimes can't seem to make 'heads or tales' of individual's writings - as I'm SURE it gets said of mine. Fine. They shall drill no WELL before it's time (like that "They shall drink no wine before it's time. ' isn't that right?...from what I remember anyway).

&THEY SHALL 'DRILL NO WELL' before it's TIME. Fine...wash, rinse, & repeat: THEY SHALL DRILL NO WELL 'before it's time. - like it? has a good ring to it, it does.

THEY SHALL DRILL NO WELL BEFORE IT IS TIME.***

---------------------------------

NOW - here's the 'flip side' question...CAN a company HORIZONTALLY DRILL under my land - even with a NON-SUFACE USE LEASE agreement - even if the 'WELL' is basically 'right BESIDE you'?...and NOT be included IN the 'drilling block'?

I recall years ago when I was being approached concerning the lease. Under pretenses of a 'law' POTENTIALLY being passed that would ALLOW the G&O Co.'s to be able to NOT be 'impeded' by an individual's land NOT being 'tied up & leased'. It would give the G&O Co.'s the right to 'drill' & THEN NOT have to offer ANY 'signing bonus' + the MINIMUM royalty % of only 12 1/2% which would get HELD in an ESCROW acct. SO - THAT was why I went ahead with signing a lease - got a 'signing bonus' and better royalty percentage...eliminated the potential 'shagging'/fleasing of the G&O Co.'s - by the 'threat of LAW', no less...so, wasn't overly 'happy' with it, but it was ok.

The 'law' never passed - makes me honestly think the THIS was really just 'floated out there' to GET individuals to 'spring' & uncoil - 'do the dirty'....DIRTY POOL, if so. So basically, I signed/committed under 'duress'. It NEVER 'sat WELL' in the pit of my bowels. How would YOU feel - talk about the feeling of being 'hung out to dry'! The lease is a NON-SURFACE USE agreement - with ALL of the MINERAL tidbits being crossed out & kept in reserve for myself. SO the 'road frontage' property (more valuable - commercially speaking) is somewhat 'maintained' - I know it was TOO SMALL to DRILL/put a WELL onto...and THIS preserved the potential of DISTURBING the LAND itself - as WELL as NOT end up being USED for a 'storage place' for 'parked equipment/ storage of product in 'holding tanks', pipelines criss-crossing every which way the CROW fly...and basically - THEM 'getting the MILK (G&O +++) WITHOUT 'buying the cow'!

MAIN THOUGHT/QUESTION: CAN they have a HORIZONTAL gas well within 'x' vicinity OF one's PROPERTY LINE & NOT be 'included' in the 'drilling block party'?...HOW do you KNOW that they can't won't just STEAL YOUR GAS?!...Those 'Hydraulic wells' have 'spider claws'! That's like HORSE THIEVING!

I kick myself for NOT making sure an 'adendum' was put in place stating that I was to be INCLUDED in ANY 'drilling block' of ANY WELL that was positioned within 'x' distance from ANY of my existing 'property borders'...but I'll kick myself on that later...no problem. I did my best to protect & preserve the land in the best ways possible for myself. There's ALWAYS 'something better' out there...MISSION IMPOSSIBLE. *PRESERVATION is more of MY line of thought...RATIONAL IDIOCRACY! IDIOSYNCRASIES.... I 'live', I 'breathe' (by the sword?...) - I'm fine. It's just a question...don't know if ANYONE ELSE has experienced any 'difficultues' such as this scenario?....

As one light lights abother, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness.... bother, bother - toil & trouble...glad to read your 'human side', Frank...it enlightened me better. Honor.

Permalink Reply by melissa humphrey on March 28, 2013 at 10:57am

NEWFIELD- what is to stop him---is the liability, he will be sued and have to pay out 100%.

+ to a 100% royalty.

his legal risk mgmt department won't let him!

Permalink Reply by New Field Farm on March 29, 2013 at 5:44am

Melissa,

The more challenging piece seems to be the "reach" of the frack to draw out a landowners g&o.  Depending on the size of the parcel, and I see folks on here with 20 acre parcels, it seems to me they would loose a substantial portion of their in-ground assets through what I guess I will call deep underground leaching and so, if you own your rights but have nearby production facilities, you will most definitely loose out.  On a related note, I believe the burden of proof falls onto the landowner to ensure they have not been drilled under.  Your thoughts?

Permalink Reply by semaj james on January 4, 2014 at 2:56pm

The previous owner of my property refused to sign a lease. When I bought the property I also got the mineral rights. When I moved in I called/emailed numerous times asking if I could sign and got no response.  Now they're drilling near me and I'm also thinking whats to stop them from stealing whats mine? And how do I know if they are under my property or not? I would rather just sign, but it seems as though I don't really have that option.

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