Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by scott jackovitch on May 18, 2011 at 7:42am

This Buck sounds like a snake oil salesman to me or maybe just a snake. This sounds like one of those terrible stories you watch on an episode of 60 minutes where some family gets taken and the crook is never seen or heard of again. I wouldn't sign anything from this guy it doesn't sound right. I would check him out and see if I could get any info on him. I hope it all works out for you, thats just my two cents worth !!

Permalink Reply by 0i7okn54zwbdo on May 18, 2011 at 12:30pm

There is no reason to rush through something like this.  If your attorney cannot figure out what's going on then I would say that this is a scam.  If you want to understand what rights your family still owns then go to the courthouse and do the title research.  It sounds daunting but it can be done with only a modicum of experience.

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on May 19, 2011 at 11:23am

You would have to know what parcel of land is in question to be able to do the research. There IS a rush to do something or both JV and Buck the landman end up with nothing and the current landowner will end up with their property being whole again.

Permalink Reply by jerry allen on May 18, 2011 at 12:46pm

Phone the local paper in the area in question and ask if they have a posting regarding current land owners attempting to obtain the minerals rights in question via the "dormant mineral act."   I believe the law requires that it be posted in the local paper.  Many of the papers have web sites where you can research this yourself if you live out of the area. 

Permalink Reply by Jmaes Vaughan on May 18, 2011 at 7:39pm

Good advice from all! Thanks!

We turned them down. Never did find any notices about the dormant mineral rights.

They wanted us to sign papers where they would have filled in details regarding the land AFTER.

Too weird! Attorney wasn't even sure such a thing could be recorded.

Permalink Reply by Rich Koehler on May 18, 2011 at 9:36pm

The only intelligent thing you could have done.  The oil and gas have been under the ground for a really long time.  There is no reason to feel you have to sell it in a week, especially when the jerk who contacted you handed you a blank contract.

 

That guy should probably be reported to the BBB or something.  Absolutely shady, slimey, and unscrupulous.  One would hope the honest landmen (are there any?) would somehow set up a self policing organization or association like the Board of Realtors or something so landowners and leaseowners would have some idea of whether or not the person was at least recognized as a fellow professional by his peers. 

 

Find an attorney familiar with gas and oil leases who is willing to find out if you have some holdings you are not aware of.  See if he/she will run down the history of any land you have an interest in to see if there are any leases on it.  It seems to me that any old lease that has not paid you money for a long time would be expired or at least legally terminated by the inaction of the lessee.  Contact a good honest attorney.

 

You can go to the ODNR site and look around a bit and find out about most of the wells they have on record, active or plugged.  If there was some activity on that land, there is probably a record of it.  Try ohiodnr.com/mineralhomepage/tabid/10352 and see where it gets you.  I got to the maps, but that only opened the door to find them.  The 10352 is key.  Their maps are a little weird to use, but very helpful once you get the hang of it.  There is a lot of click and drag to get where you want to be at the level of magnification you need to show everything.  Be patient, it's worth the effort.

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on May 19, 2011 at 11:18am

It very well could be recorded. If the attorney did not know this, then you have hired the wrong attorney and need one who specializes in real property rights. One who specializes in Oil & Gas would be even better. Buck the landman would file a claim of "Preservation of a Mineral Interest" on that parcel and include language in the claim giving him 50% of those rights. See ORC 5301.56.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5301.51

Permalink Reply by Laurel on May 19, 2011 at 9:51am

In Pennsylvania, of which I am a resident, a surface owner must send letters of acknowledgement to all the heirs of any subsurface owners telling them that an "Action of Quiet Title" is about to be entered into the courts to have them stripped of their subsurface rights.  This must then be accompanied by multiple publisings in local newspapers and local law journals.  Then if after several months no heir comes forth to stake their claim, their rights can be released by the courts.  Now, Ohio may be different, but that is unlikely.  Probably the G&O company is running down title on this parcel of land, and has found you in the line of subsurface owners.  I doubt your rights can so easily be mitigated.  I would ask your lawyer to search for your names in local law journals and in local newspapers, however keep in mind it is a bit like a needle in a haystack as the publishing need only be in a radius of the area on which the land rests.  In otherwords, it may not be advertised in YOUR local paper as the land could be located a 100miles away.   Be tenacious.  It sounds like it may be worth the effort.  Good luck.

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on May 19, 2011 at 11:12am

In Ohio, the notice (Affidavit of Abandonment) is required to be posted ONCE in the "newspaper of general circulation" in the county where the land is located. This newspaper will be the one in the county (where the land is located) where legal notices are posted. The county Recorder for that county can tell you what news paper those legal notices are posted in IF you can find out what county the land is in.

Permalink Reply by Allen Voshall on May 19, 2011 at 10:25am

Well,

I agree Buck Jenkins is not to be trusted, but....

The problem is this:  If there has been no activity in the last 20 years, the mineral rights have been effectively abandoned, and you will not be able to reclaim them without proof of some activity that did take place in the last 20 years.  The qualifying events are described on ORC 5301.56 paragraph B-3, available here:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5301.56

Also, many counties have a recorder's website that is searchable by name, so you could certainly narrow your search.

Good luck.

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on May 19, 2011 at 10:36pm

Allen

You got this wrong. If anything under B-3 HAS occurred, then the interest CAN'T be vested back to the current landowner. Paragraph (B) ends with "and NONE of the following applies:". This is stating that any of the items under B-3 (a-f) can NOT have occurred in the last 20 years if you want to get the rights back. Under B-3, a-f are all conditions that would indicate that the mineral interest has NOT been abandoned.

a) deals with a title transaction (lease)

b) deals with production (HBP)

c) deals with storage

d) deals with intent to drill/mine

e) deals with a claim of preservation

f) deals with the mineral interest being deemed a taxable entity by the county govt

Permalink Reply by Allen Voshall on May 19, 2011 at 11:38pm

Finnbear,

Things have gotten a little confused here.  (My fault).

You are right, I should have used the word preserve in place of reclaim.

The 7 cousins own a certain reservation of mineral rights, but have abandoned them.

The current landowner is reclaiming them, and the 7 cousins won't be able to preserve them.

It is my understanding that if none of the events of B-3 have occurred in the last 20 years, the current landowner will succeed in his effort to reclaim, even if the 7 cousins now file a claim.

H-2 states that:

If a holder or a holder’s successors ... who claim that the mineral interest ... has not been abandoned fails to file an affidavit that identifies an event described in division (B)(3) of this section that has occurred within the twenty years immediately preceding the date on which the notice was served...the owner ... shall cause the county recorder ... to memorialize the record on which the severed mineral interest is based with the following: “This mineral interest abandoned pursuant to affidavit of abandonment recorded in volume …., page …..”

 

By the way, if anyone in Stark county would like to attempt this, I can recommend a title attorney, shoot me a private message.

 

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