Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by paleface on September 2, 2011 at 2:44am

You have to let it go the gas companys make mistakes daily keep your contact on your good side so they can fix these problems if and when they happen.We are all finding out gas and oil leasing is not a perfect science.If you recieved that description of non surface in a email I would copy that and save?

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on September 2, 2011 at 3:15am

It wasn't the gas company, it was Long Consulting. Shell authorized a true "non-surface" lease for me, as describe above. That is the contract I signed. After I signed, the landman wrote a new addendum making it a 'no drill' lease without telling me. It wasn't a 'mistake'.  Altering a signed contract to be more advantageous to one party without all the signators' approval is a third-degree felony, according to the Forgery section of the PA Code. I don't let things like that go.

All I want it the addendum that Shell authorized and I agreed to. Shell has been great about this, and has assured me that I will get a true non-surface lease, as described above, and I have no hesitation entering into a contract with them. It's Long I don't trust.

For ANYONE who has signed a lease: check the copy that that the Gas Co. has (they should send you a copy when it's 'processed') against the copy you got at signing, especially the addenda, since the main lease is boilerplate and doesn't change, to make sure there are no 'mistakes'.

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on September 2, 2011 at 3:30am

I asked for a confirmation of the exact wording of the approved addendum (I am SUCH a pain in the butt). This is what I got from Shell:

Non-Surface: Lessor and Lessee hereby agree that this is a non-surface lease.  Lessee shall not conduct any surface operations on the leased premises without the prior written consent of the Lessor.

 

 

Permalink Reply by paleface on September 2, 2011 at 3:39am

That covers anything I can think of from the gas oil company,but if the PUC. wants to put a gas line across your property thats out of Shells hands?

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on September 2, 2011 at 3:50am

My lease is with Shell, not the PUC??? I already have a gas line running through my property. And phone and electric lines on poles....all through easement agreements with the various utilities.

 

If Shell wants to put a pipeline on my property, we can discuss that, too. I'm not against use of my property; I just want to control it so I don't end up with a compressor station or something.

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on September 2, 2011 at 6:32am

Thanks for the "spoiler" update.  One thing  I particularly like about this one - compared to the one ERM offered last year (and your landman substituted) - is the explicit acknowlegement by  the Lessee that it's a non-surface lease.  The ERM addendum implied that consent to some surface use was expected.

What's often overlooked is that non-surface use land is of value to a gasco ... even if all of it can't be reached by horizontals from adjoining property.   It buys them five (or more) years they don't have to be concerned about the competition setting up shop next door. 

 

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on September 2, 2011 at 7:09am

The way my land is positioned, they aren't likely to want to put a well on it (no doubt why they agreed to a non-surface). The part that isn't in the unit already has too many nearby buildings (mine and the neighbors). I'm also thinking of future developments; who knows what they may come up with, and I want to have final say over what happens to my land.

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on September 2, 2011 at 8:20am

Even if they did want to put a well on it, it could still be to their benefit to get you locked in now as non-surface.  The non-surface term leaves the opening for future ammending agreements; it's not absolute.   (No, I'm not saying there is something   wrong with that.)  Non-surface isn't perfect for Shell, but it satisfies some of their objectives.

Permalink Reply by Wayne D on September 2, 2011 at 2:30pm

Happy to hear you are leased . Maybe some one will contact me soon too.  That is the type lease they gave my neighbor  but the landman working with me has not come through yet.  I was always concerned about the extra paper you sign that is filed in the court house . It  does not list all of the agreaments of the lease . Also the copy of the lease that comes from shell , at lease the ones I have seen from east,  have no signature from them .  Just wonder what leg people have to stand on when the company does not sign a lease or initial each page of a lease , if something happens and both parties leases are diferent ? I think I will be even more of a pain to them .  I would want to have a signed copy that shows page 1 of 7 , 2 of 7 etc . with initials on each.  I think I would even pay to file the full lease at the court house . 

Permalink Reply by Robin Jackson on September 2, 2011 at 3:33pm

I think that is a great idea..I'll be posting a question to the group that will approach the same type of issue with family and friends.

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on September 2, 2011 at 4:24pm

The cost would be minor.  The question is whether the Lessor could orver-ride the Lessee's policy of recording only the memorandum.

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on September 2, 2011 at 11:45pm

That's a great idea. I have the re-signing or whatever today. I always thought it was odd that the gas co. never signs the lease; how can it be a binding contract if only one party signs? Supposedly them filing the Memorandum makes it legal. BUT they don't file the document itself.  

As I found out, it's SO easy for someone to change the Addendum after the contract is signed. There's no where on the Addendum to even initial it (but we did anyway, but there's no way to prove it). This time I'm insisting on signing and notarizing the Addendum, too. I told the newlandman that and he acted like I was crazy. I don't know how else to prove that the copy I have is the real contract,and if theirs doesn't match mine, THEIRS is the fake. I'd like to put a note somewhere on the lease that says that the Addendum is notarized, and if it isn't, it isn't the original.

My ex says that the way they do it is a ridiculous way to handle an important contract; in the business world, every page is initialed, and if a page goes missing or is altered, heads roll. No one seems to care that that happened to me. Now I'm REALLY paranoid.

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