Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Diane Kosmalski on October 13, 2010 at 3:06am

Don't have an answer but very much appreciate reading your very well thought out post. I had many of the same thoughts while watching the coverage last evening. The country of Chile can be very happy for the example that they and their president have exhibited to the world.
I look forward to reading replies to your post. I apologize for not being a contributor as yet. I am very much in the learning stage.

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on October 13, 2010 at 3:18am

I, too, thought it was a very well-thought-out response to that crisis. It showed honesty and hard work and concern from all over the world. I'm so glad it's progressing so well.

The Marcellus...well, that's just business. Everyone's in it to get the most that they can; we have a valuable resource, and they want it. It's a matter of how badly they want it and what we are willing to settle for. People aren't so altruistic when nobody's life is in danger and there's a buck to be made. I think all we, as landowners, can do is try to get our elected officials fighting on our side so they don't sell us out to the O&G companies. As long as we have the freedom to make any deal with can (or not deal at all if we choose), I think that's the best we can expect.

Permalink Reply by William Ladd on October 13, 2010 at 3:52am

Thank for your comments Lynn and Diane Kosmalski. ( And Diane, dont worry about being in the learning stage. Everyone is in that learning stage. Some of us are just a little farther along!)

Being a little altrustic, Lynn is not so bad. It is much better then the greed we are looking at or seeing that is coming from the people in authority. Personally, I never had much in the way of wealth. But what I did have was shared with needy folks, and still is.

A problem did arise one time.

The needy people looked at me and said, "What is Bill after? What does he want?" Well Lynn I was trying to resume being a member of my community and reestablish old friendships after spending time in the military. I felt like an outcast!

But I am not going to get into that discussion here.

My purpose here is to point out that many of the land owners only want their fair share of the riches that the state of Pennsylvania has. We have paid taxes and scratched the land for a pretty meager living. And now that many of the financially wizards have contaminated and destroyed their own "nests" so to speak, they wish to rob us, the folks who tried to preserve our own areas!

Bill L.
aka Bummy

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on October 13, 2010 at 4:16am

"My purpose here is to point out that many of the land owners only want their fair share of the riches that the state of Pennsylvania has. We have paid taxes and scratched the land for a pretty meager living. And now that many of the financially wizards have contaminated and destroyed their own "nests" so to speak, they wish to rob us, the folks who tried to preserve our own areas!"

Bill; I don't really understand your attitude. No one is 'robbing' anyone. People are entering legally-binding contracts of their own free will. The goal of the O&G company is to keep as much of their profits as they can; our goal is to get as much of their profit (in the form of bonus and royalty) as WE can. If what I'm offered doesn't seem fair to me, no deal.

If you had your house on the market for $100,000 and someone offered you $50,000, it's your option to accept it or tell them to get lost and wait for a better deal. If you accept the $50,000 offer and do the deal, you can't come back later and whine that you were robbed. Even if, years later, you find out that your house is now worth a lot more than you sold it for, it was a legitimate contract, agreed to by both sides, and certainly not the buyer's fault if you feel cheated.

Permalink Reply by William Ladd on October 13, 2010 at 5:29am

Lynn! lets not let this discussion deteriorate into a personal Squabble.

A legally binding contract is great. But when ALL of the facts are not presented to you and you have not the ability to dig them out for yourself and the only option you might have is to hire a very expensive lawyer, which you cannot really afford, that may or may not have your best interest in mind as he works. Then you have little chance of coming out in one piece.

Putting in in another way.

Yo have a calf. you are a youngster. You are working your butt off providing the best hay, the best grain and the best housing possible. That calf grows up. That animal trusts you and has an average life style. But in your mind you are planning something else not in his best interest!

Now you are grown up. You lead your animal to a new barn. BANG! you have taken the life of your animal just to butcher him out and eat him.

Lets change this a little bit. The animal is a human being and not a different specie. The basic story is exactly the same. Is it morally right for one human being to do this to another?

Please understand I do not mean butcher him out in a literal sense, only figuretivly speaking. But that is what is taking place.

We are talking about leasing, not buying, Lynn!

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on October 13, 2010 at 6:16am

Bill; I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Permalink Reply by William Ladd on October 13, 2010 at 6:58am

Of course you can't relate what I am saying. Not many people can. Try this,

Many land owners have been CUT to pieces by unscrupulous Oil and gas speculators and other financial wizards who had better information then the landowner was.

The accumulation of great wealth seems to be the sole purpose for some folks. But life is much more then having a fat pocketbook

CUT or BUTCHERED

Bill L.
aka Bummy

Permalink Reply by Brian V. on October 13, 2010 at 6:22am

Bill, IMO Lynn is right on with this one. My family has been signing leases for the past 40 years. Most have been for $1.00 to $5.00 per acre and most have been straight 10 year leases. Were they fair offers then compared to now? Ya IMO. My parents never gave much thought to any of it because until the last really 8 years there was never any serious drilling ever taking place. The game has certainly changed now and rightfully so people need to do their homework. I have consulted 3 different attorney's over the years and for the most part they have never told me anything that I haven't already researched myself. In fact two of them gave me addendum clauses that did not even pertain to my land.

Fact is these leases are legal contracts and given recent development they should not be taken lightly in any way. If you aren't comfortable with the terms wait it out. Your minerals aren't going anywhere unless you get spaced out which IMO is a complete violation of ones property rights. But it is legal in PA currently.

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on October 13, 2010 at 6:22am

Also, in the case of mineral rights, there's very little difference between leasing and selling. If you read a lease, the rights belong to the O&G company until they decide to return them...as long as they fulfill the terms of the lease (lease payments, or royalty or shut-in payments, or whatever the terms are), they hold your rights forever.

Permalink Reply by Diane Kosmalski on October 13, 2010 at 6:56am

There certainly is alot to learn before signing a lease.
I am doing as much homework as time allows and appreciate all of the input on this forum.

Permalink Reply by William Ladd on October 13, 2010 at 7:06am

There is a huge difference between morally right and legally right. I think that many folks would say that what is being done legally is not necessarily the proper thing thing to do when conditions change.

Bill L.
aka Bummy

Permalink Reply by Brian V. on October 13, 2010 at 7:24am

Unfortunately today's world will stomp on those expecting to be treated morally correctly. The landmen I've spoken to have stated very simply that this is what I can and can not offer to you. I've been told that what is offered today could be rescinded tomorrow and also that what isn't offered could be agreed to down the road depending any number of factors that these companies consider when trying to get that lease at the best deal possible.

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