Comment

Comment by Nate on October 9, 2010 at 2:53pm

To an extent Lynn, I think you are on the same page as me.

Comment by Two Dogs on October 9, 2010 at 2:37pm

Mike, I am not saying go out and get any lease, that would be a bad mistake. A person might need to get copies of several leases to compare the different clauses. Go find the lease on a powerful politician or someone that may be connected to oil and gas industry. Do your homework and become as informed as you can before going to your attorney.

Comment by Oil and Gas nightmare on October 9, 2010 at 10:11am

you know what sucks about this whole debate...truthfully, if they busted the butts, went out and got the unit together, went an knocked on doors, sent it to every gas company they could even think of in order to get the best deal, said hey while we are at it lets see if you got some more rights out there, coal, coalbed methane etc... and then reviewed your lease , protected you even with the things that you dont bring to their attention, but becasue it works out better for you, their client...and then got you a high %, high bonus...etc..I dont think i would have a problem paying whomever a % of my deal...maybe not forever and ever but, you could put a cap on it..say 3 years or something, which is more than enough money. It would not be debated so much becasue then you would have satisfied customers, that got what they paid for. the problem is, they dont call you back or get back to you in a timely manner, or go search the deed all the way back, etc etc.. with a sense of urgency, they dont get out there and hussle, shake the trees to get the best deal, they do not go above and beyond to justify such a HUGE payment for there services, its like they get you to commit to use them and then, they just get busy with getting more clients and go well I'll handle it when it comes but i am not going to proactivley make this happen... that is what pisses me off...and no i dont think they can magically get you everything you wan t in a lease but, it would be nice if they put some serious work into it to justify the amount of money they are charging... for a say $50,000.00 pay day(bonus money if you got a lot of land) I would be busting my ass so hard to secure that deal and i would go out of my way to make sure that customer was thrilled to have picked me...yet they to me seem like...eehh whatever, if you bring me a lease I'll review it but if you dont know all the secret clauses, then I aint tellin ya...and hey thanks for paying cash for my house...thats the problem...anybody agree?

Comment by Mike Winesburg on October 9, 2010 at 9:44am

I guess greed has gotten the best of them. There are plenty of good attorney's willing to charge a fair price. We just need to seek them out. This would be a good venue for recommendations as well as red flags. I just got back from the NARO convention in Pittsburgh and was very impressed with the law firm of Smith & Butz in South Pointe, PA (just west of Pittsburgh). They know what they're doing, have a ton of experience, and were specifically against taking part of future royalties as compensation. That being said, I have no direct experience with them.

Comment by Nate on October 9, 2010 at 8:58am

But Mike, why are atty's going from an hourly rate to work the bad terms out of their lease to now we want a percentage of their clients total proceeds? They're doing the same work! Sounds like something the ambulance chasers on TV would pull!

Comment by Mike Winesburg on October 8, 2010 at 11:44pm

I think it could be a mistake to assume the latest lease recorded in the courthouse has the most favorable terms for you. What's important to one landowner may not be important to another. With the potential money to be made it seems silly that you wouldn't invest in expert advice and guidance in securing the best possible lease terms that not only maximize your returns but protect your land, etc. We're not talking about a one year apartment lease here. This is something that could impact you and your family for decades.

Comment by Two Dogs on October 8, 2010 at 11:24pm

All you have to do is go to the courthouse and find a lease that has been executed by someone or entity that you know to be smart in doing an oil and gas deal and pay the dollar a page or whatever for the copies.Throw that at the landman and say you want the same thing. Done deal no charge but for the copies. One thing you need to do is find the most recent document, like in the last month or so that is in your area.

Comment by Nate on October 8, 2010 at 10:53pm

Don't get me wrong, I value an attorney looking over legal documents but a year ago looking over the same lease would cost a fraction of what they want today, for the same work!

Comment by Mike Winesburg on October 8, 2010 at 9:32pm

I agree that an attorney adds tremendous value and is provide expertise that most would benefit from. The form and amount of payment for their services is the real debate. I'd prefer a flat charge over an hourly rate because you know what you're paying. I can't imagine forfeiting a percentage of future royalties in any situation though. The idea of someone getting paid for 10, 20, 30 years or more for lease negotiations is absurd in my opinion.

Comment by Nate on October 8, 2010 at 7:25pm

Perhaps it's all relative, a normal oil and gas lease before big boom times can be handled by a lawyer for much less than the 8% they now want on your a lease that can range in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

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