Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on September 23, 2011 at 5:15pm

I've been told there are already $2000 offers in Wayne county.

Permalink Reply by Bobby on September 23, 2011 at 11:45pm

There was an offer for $2,000 an acre in eastern Wayne County but I understand that

nothing ever materialized and that no one has been actually paid that amount.

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on September 24, 2011 at 4:35pm

Someone near Kidron supposedly has a signed $2k lease.

Permalink Reply by 0i7okn54zwbdo on September 24, 2011 at 4:43am

I always laugh at the sense of entitlement that landowners seem to have. Last year they gladly took $10/acre and a shot at free gas.  Now they expect huge dollars on pure speculation.

Permalink Reply by Mickgyver on September 24, 2011 at 5:22am

landowners are entitled to the value their property contains and it has already been proven that various areas here in Ohio are producing very well , the companies  don't gamble mooney without the information that has been collected for the last few years and the approval of their board of directors, before they moved in . Some companies were absorbing acres 6 years ago for the future resale of the leases . But everyone is entitled to their opinion , most complaints are being posted by people that are not getting a chunk of what is being paid and it is sad since most of the larger land is owned  by the hardworking farmers who have struggled all their lives just to make a decent living .They deserve a break .The land payments are still  not nearly as fortunate as the high payed sports teams that a lot of people are so happy to cheer for , but you rarely here complaints about what their pay scale is . Landowners pay dearly for land taxes and their taxes are always raised for various issues which include school funding which helps all of our children . The farmers  are appreciated from all of us and if they do well God Bless them .

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on September 24, 2011 at 5:24pm

Those companies who invested in leases here 6 years ago were gambling big on this at the time. This time they probably have won, and by all indications available today, won big. Good for them. They could have lost that investment just as easily and probably have done just that in the past. Had some companies not stuck their necks out in this manner, this play would probably not have developed to the point where it is now. No one put a gun to the heads of the people who signed those leases 6 years ago either, they did not have to sign them. I am continually surprised at the "buyers remorse" that often follows not involving competent legal counsel in business deals.

Permalink Reply by Mickgyver on September 24, 2011 at 10:18pm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HISTORICAL INFORMATION ON OHIO'S OIL AND GAS DEPOSITS  ,Hello all ,I will apologize ahead of time for this long blog but I feel it may well be worth the time to read .I am going supply some very good information which is not intended to insult anyone's ideas or thoughts on this subject. It is intended to help all of us understand what has been known and what is transpiring now. This site refers to one area but as we know these resources are in a large portion here in Ohio as well as other states , The website I shall provide does have some very good information to help everyone understand that these discoveries were known for along time in OHIO . In addition I recently posted the fact of the leases being bought for $6 an acre and future resale. This is not a new fact, it is just the way the companies have done for years .Although through research you will find a lot of these facts which are just coming out to the attention of the public that were known long ago about the Utica and Marcellus and some companies just acted earlier because they could develop the shallow layers and have the patience to wait until the full attack to control Ohio became a reality . For the sake of our current situation in the Utica and Marcellus Shale  ,just consider that the  companies that came around and talked  the under informed landowners into signing the cheaper leases  did not have the intention to flip their lease or merge with others for deep well production at a later date,  These same companies still  have been able to develop production wells in the shallow areas at a lower cost with great profit potential . And by controlling everything from top to bottom they have always been able to resell their deep holdings to any company that could afford to develop the deeper hydrocarbons , therefore their risk level was minimal unless a periodic dry hole was done which can occur in any situation . The website may help to  understand that this large deposit was known before but it is obvious that the oil companies had decided not to develop it until the other deep water Oil, and oil sands deposits and various other areas became less profitable compared to  the cost to develop our hydrocarbons .On many of the older posted websites you will notice that most of them say there is not enough information about the Marcellus or Utica to determine their actual reserve potential . Somewhere the additional words should have read not enough information available to the public to show the potential there is for future development . I am fully for the development of our state unless it is proven that the risks outweigh the rewards , but I firmly believe that by having adequate information and by remaining in the larger groups we will be more enabled to add some protection for our property by the lease addendum's that are being added to the company leases . There was some  additional information that I had posted which I saw about the test well in the Utica which has additional lateral runs and various other special features that enabled one well to produce 50,000 barrels of oil and 150,000,000 cu.ft of gas in just 60 days . If these facts were right this equates to $4,000,000 for oil at $80 bucks a barrel and $600,000 for gas at $4 per 1000 cu.ft less expenses of course but this development will become cheaper to add to other well systems in the future.I will post this site as soon as I dig it back out of all this research . And also I listed a fact that it has been stated that wet gas in some cases is more valuable than pure oil because of the various derivatives from processing  .The potential here is astronomical .I have recently learned there is another layer that I believe is called the Briquette shale ,which is supposed to be above the Marcellus .  AS always in any situation  if they don't make money we wont make any ,but I am all for us to have enough knowledge to make a good decision for our future .. My point with all of this is the fact that in most situations regardless of what a company is going to profit from we are usually unaware until it is too late to make any difference . The website I am adding below will show that we have been recovering from between the Marcellus and the Utica for along time and that the companies are  never  allowed to invest the large amounts being spent  when it comes to speculative plays because the board of directors have a lot of control .

I learned a lot of development and technical information by following various stock investments which usually elaborate to some extent to get investors to climb on board . The large institutions have a much better access to even more detailed advances and information  because of the large dollar investments they make . I have always found as an individual I have a much harder time learning what is truly going on regardless of what the business is until they get a strong foothold on whatever they require to make huge profits . By the time the public becomes aware of the truth they have usually been bypassed for the best overall results . This information should help everyone that is interested to understand how long some of the oil and gas plays have been known as well as when fracking began in Ohio. AS far as myself I have always felt if I was not knowledgeable enough to fully understand any of my problem , purchases or investments   it would be best to have someone help me to learn and help control the outcome  that knows what they are doing . Sorta like getting your butcher to fix your computer (which I have done in  trying to save a few bucks) This never works well that is why I feel if we decide to keep separated from a group we at least need to have an attorney involved who is familiar with gas and oil in the quantities that are here or be involved with a well educated group who has the guidance by the same sort of attorney . The oil companies have legal guidance that is second to none . and enough knowledge to only release limited information so as to not tip their hand to acquire their needs at the best possible prices until the word gets out enough to have some competition . Even in this I am sure the competitors still communicate enough with each other to help control their overall expenditures.  It will be very interesting also to observe the website information of the various companies involved because they will be listing a lot of enticing information to encourage investors to purchase their stocks which will increase as the details lot better ,This will give a lot more operating capital for the companies to be able to develop the acreage holdings better.A few years back I personally decided after I had made my share of mistakes that I would not lease too cheaply  unless there was a guarantee that a well would be installed within a certain time frame , then the royalties would have more than covered my initial cheaper sale price  otherwise I would not even lease at $6 per acre to allow someone to put up hay on my property let alone control my entire property from top to bottom. (although I have given my hay away to help my neighbors )My situation has changed now since I will need to become part of a larger drilling unit somewhere down the road if I am lucky. This Marcellus.com site has enabled  us to read various information to educate our friends and neighbors who may not have been able to have the time to research such facts. I hope the groups hold together even when it seems that there is not enough information provided to them , I don't mean for this comment to sound bad or insulting  but I am sure that there will be a point with  some group leaders  who will be  encouraging members  to sign the leases quickly, when there is money available when they feel their groups may be getting ready to split by being attracted to other groups or from getting nervous for various reasons this could occur .Even when someone has the best intentions some situations cause problems  Please encourage your fellow members to keep it together and don't sign until your groups majority is happy with the outcome. As I understand even then you can go it alone if you are uncomfortable with any clauses that may affect you adversley but I dont feel it would be in my best interest . When there is a chance to lose some of the money based on the acres involved there is always temptation for various reasons for landowners as well as group leaders who may only have their end fee as their final money . I like the idea to get involved in a group that has a committee that has enough land in the group that could alter their future enough to stay strong  for all concerned .This is another choice of where a landowner chooses to be a member of . One thing my grandfather told me long ago is that they can make and replace a lot of things in life but your land is not one of them . I have paid land taxes for about 30 years which has helped to fund the various county needs and made the schools better for my children as well as for other peoples benefits that never pay these taxes or  have any of the other landowner responsibilities in which we  have developed and added to our properties for various reasons . We all know if you don't pay your taxes you don't keep your land so who would deserve any better value than us . I also fully   understand that many others landowners have much more invested in their own properties . This is why I take the time to try to help pass on the available information so we can all be treated fairly . This is exactly why the landowners have a right to deserve the best value  Sorry for the long winded speech but I hope it helps because I do have some acreage that may help my family but it will surely be a few years.This is why I feel a good solidarity will promote good upfront bonuses which  would be very helpful now to ease life;s stresses a little for now ,and hopefully a lot later  , Best to all and Keep on keeping together if the groups break down they will be able to lease cheaper again . HERE IS THE WEBSITE with the Ohio info

 

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/x524583322/History-of-oil-gas-drillin...

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Rich Koehler on October 18, 2011 at 1:54pm

Maybe not Finnbear.  If you spend a bit of time on the well finder part of the DNR site, you will discover there is a 7000' deep straight well in Clinton Twp., located along Metcalf road.  That well was drilled quite a while ago by Columbia.  The landowner, an acquaintance of mine went to court over whether the storage lease on his property allowed that well to be drilled.  He lost.

Perhaps those quietly buying leases 6 years ago weren't gambling quite as much as you think.

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on November 16, 2011 at 8:53am

What well number is that? I looked at the couple shown near Metcalf  and can't find what you mentioned.

Permalink Reply by Mickgyver on September 25, 2011 at 9:30am

Amen ,I was just trying to be decent about it in my post . As you get older Life sorta makes you listen longer , shut up more often and learn a little more patience . A wife and kids does that too (LOL)

Permalink Reply by 0i7okn54zwbdo on September 25, 2011 at 6:12pm

I'm fortunate enough to not need a windfall based on location and dumb luck.  My complaint wasn't about people getting paid, it was about the sense that science and geology are irrelevant to many landowners.  Never mind that there no Utica wells in Wayne county, pay us what we think we deserve.

Permalink Reply by mbc on September 26, 2011 at 4:18am

I think, Marcus, that if you visit Ohio's DNR website and peruse the information and maps posted there by the state's geologists and scientists, that you may come to the conclusion that people in Wayne County (and others) have reason enough to hope for and hold out for proper and FAIR mineral leasing terms.

If inheriting the family farm is dumb luck, then so be it.  If inheriting grandpa's business is dumb luck, then so be it.  If buying a few acres 20 years ago for weekend recreation is dumb luck, then so be it.  If one man is fortunate enough to make his own fortune on...let's say a Pet Rock, then so be it.  One man's fortunate circumstance is another man's dumb luck, eh?

But again, be sure to look at what the energy companies, the state, the farm bureau and a host of other publications have to say about the subject before you look down your fortunate nose at the landowner who just wants to hang onto a little hope for better times.

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