Selling Mineral Rites

I found out I have 80 'acres' of mineral rites in North Central PA, how do I sell these - who would want them and how would I go about this? In PA mineral rites are separate from land rites - I don't believe the land is included, and it is part of a larger parcel (of about 700+ acres) all split by approx. 11 other people. Any information would help - thank you...

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Permalink Reply by David Perotto on March 24, 2012 at 6:12am

Rachael,

Which county/township is the property in? BTW it is rights not rites.

Dave

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on March 24, 2012 at 6:21am

Do you have "rights" on 80 acres or do you have 1/12 interest in "rights" on 700 acres?

It is an important distinction, as a potential Lessee would have more interest in a contiguous 700 acre piece than in 80 acres. 700 acres could be one or more units; 80 acres would be a small portion of one unit.

 

JS 

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on March 24, 2012 at 6:46am

First, Jack is right.....is that 80 acres or 1/12 of 700 acres?  And are you talking about selling or leasing? You can do either.  You can even sell a portion and then lease the remainder.  Also, are you in contact with the other owners of the 700 acres and what do they intend to do? If they are all agreeing on what to do, it makes it less complicated.

Permalink Reply by Rachael M Rollson on March 28, 2012 at 10:58am

i believe i have 1/9 interest in these mineral rights (thank you for the correction): the original split was between 9, but now that some of the 9 are dying off, their interest goes to their children, doesn't change my % but it does change the amount of people to make decisions, and of course, the others do not all agree. i want to sell. They are in Potter County, i'm not up on my townships but i think it may be in Keating.

Permalink Reply by mark ayers on March 28, 2012 at 11:04am

Ask the others relatives  if any or all would be interested in buying your 1/9th. 

0l1a6laz7smpfPermalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on March 28, 2012 at 11:05am

Rachael, I believe that in Pa. that all rights are with the landowner until there is a mineral rights separation on title/deed.   Then those mineral rights become separate as property.   Now be wise to make sure as some do not consider gas/oil minerals....and some mineral rights do not include timber rights.   it would be best to go to www.landex.com and pull up your deed information (it does cost per page) or contact your county courthouse and have them read and analyze what you have over the phone before you pay for the county records.

Also do you have a present lease on the mineral rights...if you don't know that also would be recorded.  You will need all this info to make a good decision anyhow.  

Permalink Reply by Rachael M Rollson on April 4, 2012 at 10:47am

i thought that the problem with PA was that the mineral rights and the land rights were separate? (well, problem for some and not for others). i do believe that these are just mineral rights and that they do include gas/oil. i can't seem to get anyone to help me at the county courthouse; they say i have to come there in person, which is not an option for me at this time. i tried using Landex but found nothing. i also believe that there might be a lease on a portion of the rights, but it's a useless lease if none of us are getting anything, i think all it is doing is tying up any progress. i don't think my family could buy anything from anyone, but i put the word out and haven't heard anything yet so i just keep hoping someone else, somewhere might want to reprieve me.

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on April 4, 2012 at 10:57am

In Pa, mineral rights and Oil and Gas rights are two distinct entities.  One may own the mineral rights but not the oil and gas.  The deed reservation must specifically state oil and gas for them to be reserved.

Do you have an idea how long ago these rights were severed? Do you know if it stated oil and gas? How many generations ago?  How many times has the surface been bought/sold since the separation?

I know that is a lot of detail you may not have but the more details, the better. The only way to know for sure is to do a title search...which costs $$$$ And you mentioned an existing lease....are you getting royalties? Is there a well on the property or have the rights been placed into a unit?

Do you know of any of the other owners that are willing to sell? Or are you the only one that's wants to sell.

Permalink Reply by Rachael M Rollson on April 4, 2012 at 11:08am

i believe that i am the only one who wants to sell.  The reality is - i don't have much to do with anyone else and i hardly believe half of what they do tell me. But the legal aide who is managing the rights has spoken to me about my share (since everyone is holding out for gas, i'm sure she would have told me if the rights did not include gas/oil) and about the existing lease (with no royalties, apparently, i guess only a few of the rights holders leased but not the others?!), and there is no well. My grandfather was the only one to own these rights since probably the 50's and none of us knew about them until the last few years when companies or landmen or whomever were looking into rights owners in Potter Cty. Can i do a title search without going there? i've talked to the legal aide (who is also related and so has a vested interest in getting these rights leased/drilled, etc) about getting concrete paperwork and she says she doesn't really have any to give me that would do what i desire but assures me that i have these mineral rights. i just want concrete answers and concrete solutions and dealing with Potter Cty makes me a little nutty.

Permalink Reply by Janice L. Hancharick on July 12, 2012 at 6:35am

Rachael,

It has been a long time since you began this discussion.  You do have a predicament!  As founder and coordinator of 4-County Leasing Group I've heard many twists on ownership of rights as they come down through generations.  Yours is a common situation, but that doesn't make it easy to deal with ... especially if you're @ a distance.

Numerous people have wanted to do the same as you, i.e. sell their fraction of old family holdings, but it just doesn't happen.  Why?  Fractions of ownership present problems because they automatically mean some stranger will have to deal with all other family members to consummate a lease agreement.  Few would choose to "buy" into that situation, and if someone decided to consider the purchase only a "fraction" of its worth would be offered.  In business as in families getting 2 to agree can be difficult ... consider 9?!!

Unless another family member will buy you out so you can walk away, you're best to keep things as they are.  I have helped other 4-County Group members ... esp. those living away, to nail down paperwork they feel is missing.  Courthouse information can be found in other offices besides the "deeds records".  If you wish to discuss this further we can @ 919.876.2917 or jlhanch@nc.rr.com  NO COST just conversation that may help you.  (I'm a slow typer!)

FYI: This isn't a "hot" region geologically speaking (no Cadillac, just a Ford) but it's solid.  New findings have given us a boost into the "wet" gas standing which means our marketing ability has gone up ... everyone's has.

You won't hear that from any land agent or company representative or from anything received in the mail.

Permalink Reply by Rachael M Rollson on July 12, 2012 at 11:58am

Thank you, Janice for your advice. The family, including me, has already signed with the 4-County Leasing Group which will hopefully yield some results but does not change the fact that i would rather not deal with this anymore. My family cannot buy me out for even a fraction of what it could be worth and so i am stuck with all these options that don't really make me happy.


i guess i missed the fairytale. But thank you.

Permalink Reply by Janice L. Hancharick on July 12, 2012 at 3:24pm

You have done better for yourself than you think, Rachel.  Many have been and ARE in your situation.

I grew up in this area.  Its resources have served many families well ... from farmland, timber, oil, gas, and water to the ultimate resource of a solid education.  This Marcellus/Utica business may seem like gobble-de-gook (sp?) now, but just you wait.  It WILL make you smile.

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