Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bluflame on October 23, 2012 at 1:18am

   I hadn't thought much about the government reporting issue either. I can see both sides of the argument: government meddling vs accumulating important data on a "strategic" commodity.

   I wonder if there are government requirements to report production of other commodities, "strategic" & "non-strategic" such as coal, uranium, copper, salt, gold, silver, nickel, iron ore, etc, etc, etc? I recall seeing reported production of some of these commodities, but cannot recall whether the source was government or industry.

BluFlame

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Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on October 23, 2012 at 1:50am

They borrow it and waste it on stupidity, Solyndra, A123, War, etc., etc., etc.

I agree it's a very fine line that separates stupidity from insanity.

However, our government will ALWAYS borrow.

If they will ALWAYS borrow, then at least spend it on something that makes sense - weening us away from being the 'new world order's' enforcers as the worst waste of blood and treasure imaginable is worthy of our expense.

Conversion to CNG from Diesel and Gasoline also makes sense.

Don't sell our ticket to energy independence to foreign flags.

Use it here at home and have the government help make it happen.

Also by help making it happen I mean stop arguing about things that don't need attention and only create diversion.

It appears to me that the winners that would be created by conversion subsidy would be the domestic consumer.

I'm all for that.

I'm all for using our natural resources domestically instead of selling them to potentially hostile foreign states for instance.

Subsidizing domestic use of our natural resources (strategic commodities to re-use a very accurate phrase) makes all the sense in the world to me.

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Permalink Reply by Bluflame on October 23, 2012 at 2:09am

   The problem is what makes sense today doesn't necessarily make sense tomorrow. For instance,  solar and wind investments made marginal sense with $12/MCF NG, but look foolish in light of $3.50/MCF NG. Same logic (although more flawed) applies to electric automobiles.

   Converting autos to NG looks like a great idea right now. I say let private industry make the investment. If NG prices remain low, they hit a home run. If not, they liquidate and move on. That defines capitalism!

BluFlame

 

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on October 23, 2012 at 2:18am

@ Blueflame:

If a Natural Gas 'glut' exists it is economical.

When it's put to use and the 'glut' ceases to exist it will become more expensive.

Call it capitalism if you like - I just call it fact.

 

Permalink Reply by Dan on October 23, 2012 at 2:18am

Joseph,

You need to go spend some time living in a country where they fix "your" energy dilemas by telling you to shut your electric off 16 hours a day.  I sure hope you are a practicing conserver of enrgy (walking to work, to bed at dark, thermostat at 60 in the winter, no AC insummer etc.) before you suggest my tax dollars pay for your NG conversion. 

Permalink Reply by Joseph-Ohio on October 23, 2012 at 2:27am

@ Dan:

My tax dollars are also involved.

And so far many of them and those of my children and grandchildren as well as yours have been spent on stupidity.

Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to pay taxes on things we don't want our government to spend our money on.

Then you and folks of your persuasion could borrow and spend paying for wars and such; and folks of my persuasion could borrow and spend paying for things that we think are important.

I wonder how many would end up in your camp and how many would end up in mine.

Don't get me wrong on things however, there is a place for spending money on defense in my books - but not necessarily for the defense of other countries which may end up as hostile to ours.

 

Permalink Reply by Bluflame on October 23, 2012 at 10:13am

To add a light-hearted air to this discussion, maybe someone could figure out a way to convert the Volt to NG!! Re-name it the Flame.  

BluFlame

Permalink Reply by Rick on October 23, 2012 at 4:30am

Utica, the $250,000 volt is just not true. That is just repeating babble from someone that has a beef against general motors. Google it, and you will see the stupid accounting that was involved in coming to that number. Such as dividing the total cost of the plant, and engineering divided by the first 6000 cars that were built... ridiculous. Thats like saying the first new model corvett built every year cost a billion because if you divide the cost of the plant, all the workers wages and benifits, and the engineering, divided by one and there ya have it.. a billion dollar car.

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Permalink Reply by Rick on October 23, 2012 at 4:50am

I forgot to include one of many websites that explain the volt better than me.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2012/0911/In-defense-of-t...

Permalink Reply by Bluflame on October 23, 2012 at 7:18am

Rick,

 The $250K number/Volt is obviously hype. However, the point is that our govt partially subsidized development and manufacture of a product that nobody wants. When the curtain inevitably falls on the Volt, the price tag will make the $750K lost on Solyndra look like chump change.

  I hope we don't repeat the mistake with NG vehicles. Let the private sector take the risk and reap the reward if there is one.

BluFlame

Permalink Reply by Rick on October 23, 2012 at 9:16am

Blue, I believe they sell more chevy volts than corvettes. And they are selling at a much quicker that the prius did when it first came out. And also the point is: if someone is going to talk down about something, at least dont lie about it... sick of all the made up bullcrap. And if they decide to cancel the volt project, or improve it in some way, I doubt they will destroy the factory and give the land away.... so factoring in realestate and buildings and such is another way to make a good idea look bad. I for one am glad that general motors is still in business. And I was glad regan helped out chrysler in the 80's. But nothing is perfect to everyone. What I think is perfect, you may think is stupid and what you think is perfect I may think is stupid... thats one of the things that makes life interesting... everyone has different ideas. Thats what makes progress really.

Permalink Reply by Bluflame on October 23, 2012 at 9:59am

Rick,

  The Volt is outselling the Corvette by a few thousand units YTD, both hovering around 10K units. Volt sales were stimulated in August by a "giveaway" lease deal. Corvette sales are 1/3 what they were in 2006. The Volt currently is a stellar 133rd in unit sales rankings of all 2012 auto models YTD.

  This isn't "made up bullcrap" and I seriously doubt that GM considers it a success story after a $1B+ development investment. I'd be willing to wager the Volt joins the Edsel in the auto model scrap heap in a few years.

  Again, I have no objection to such development risks, as long as its done with private capital. The technology developed in support of the Volt may have application in other areas, even outside the auto industry (IMHO).

  

BluFlame

   

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