Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Darlene Newton on March 24, 2014 at 11:42am

Because they went back another 2 to 3 years{ almost nothing  a couple hundred dollars !  If you think I am wrong call the Barrett's. 

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Permalink Reply by wyalusing jim on March 24, 2014 at 12:28pm

when you got your first years checks, they didn't take  out deductions until the kilmer decision was handed down, then they took out extra to make up for what you didn't pay while they were waiting. basically, you got an interest free advance on your royalties that you paid back over the next year or 2.

but that should have been over by a year ago. since then your deductions should have been the same percentage every month.

and they shouldn't change going forward from here either. when your new wells are drilled, you should get steady checks for a couple of years until those wells decline.

if this bill becomes law as is, and the companies stop taking deductions again, you can expect the same scenario when the court rules this as unconstitutional again.

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Permalink Reply by Moldyoak on March 24, 2014 at 12:51pm

"if this bill becomes law as is, and the companies stop taking deductions again, you can expect the same scenario when the court rules this as unconstitutional again."

THIS.  And this is what is so very upsetting, because the bill as written WILL be ruled unconstitutional, eventually, and large numbers of good people will be severely hurt as - once again - they will not understand (nor will they listen to anyone who attempts to explain it to them) why their royalty stream suddenly grinds to a halt.

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Permalink Reply by wyalusing jim on March 24, 2014 at 1:11pm

it really is very irresponsible of these legislators to offer false hope to people with the potential damage that it brings with it.

I think that they are bowing to political pressure from their constituents though, so the blame is all around.

wj

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Permalink Reply by Moldyoak on March 24, 2014 at 1:12pm

Of course.  It's human nature to align oneself with what one WANTS to hear!

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Permalink Reply by wyalusing jim on March 24, 2014 at 1:26pm

I guess that's why I don't got no friends huh moldy?

wj

Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on March 24, 2014 at 1:43pm

doesn't matter WHAT happens - it's 'the little guy' that gets to choke in the silica dust...while they just walk on...

...blame who & what anyone wants to - it ain't gonna' make it right...and THAT is the devil in the deep blue sea...don't matter who - fractivists, GAStivists...it don't make NO difference...smarts, no smarts - political, not political...

...it's THEIR game...and we are 'merely players'...get that. YOU don't count, period.

...and THAT is the shame of it all...asonelightlightsanothernorgrowslesssonoblenessenkindles nobleness... (IS there such a thing anymore?)

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Permalink Reply by Moldyoak on March 24, 2014 at 2:27pm

That is a very valid perspective, Mr. Santiago, and personally I appreciate you voicing your opinion in a sane and rational manner.  You may indeed be correct; at the present time, it does seem to be something of a crap shoot as to how this may all play out in the end.  Many of the legislators working on this have some degree of a legal background, so one might hope that they are endeavoring to  serve their constituents in such as way as to promote maximum benefit to these constituents.  Nevertheless, please pardon me for my skepticism.  Furthermore, I do not see any way at all that any legislation can retroactively effect change to legal contracts already signed.  To do so would open a Pandora's Box which could never be closed, and I can not forsee any competent legal entity permitting such anarchic chaos.

"YOU don't count, period."

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but my experiences with my local neighborhood gasco (CHK) have been entirely to the contrary, and I should add, all it has taken on my part to "count" is a very polite and intelligent phone call.  No screaming or rants required.

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Permalink Reply by Moldyoak on March 24, 2014 at 4:05pm

I fail to see how an interpretation can be altered, in any way, when so many people blindly signed a document which states - in plain english - "yes, I will accept 12.5% ******while allowing you to deduct from this royalty for various costs as you alone see fit*****  This is where the real issue lies, because those legal documents must be upheld despite whether they are exceptionally detrimental to the well being of one party or the other.  The advantageousness or lack thereof relative to one party or the other does not factor into business contractual issues once agreed-upon. 

Permalink Reply by wyalusing jim on March 24, 2014 at 3:59pm

if the pa supreme court upholds this legislation as written, it will then proceed to the u.s. supreme court for its' final decision. this industry is not about to lose 10's if not 100's of millions of dollars in royalty deductions.

there, it will not pass constitutional muster with regard to its' retroactivity back to 1979.

going forward, the law will be fine. and likely all royalty offers in leases signed thereafter will be adjusted downward to compensate for the loss.

wj

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Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on March 24, 2014 at 4:40pm

tough...very tough...we all know 'follow the money' - and they have the black gold AND the gold...

...i know - not a hope or a prayer. I know. even if there was a shot to get it right...it only has a snowball's chance of gettin' a suntan & still standin'. darn shame, it is.

ever see that sculpture 'End of the Trail'? - it's an Indian sitting astride his horse. Both are mentally defeated, worn, & tired out...IF we did this to the Indians...& they survived it - we will too...

what's new?...what's new...not much...end of the trail...only in america...land of the free & home of the dazed...chin up! - brave!!! asonelightlightsanothernorgrowslesssonoblenessenkindlesnobleness

Permalink Reply by Janice L. Hancharick on March 24, 2014 at 3:52pm

Jim, you are making a lot of good sense that many will ignore no matter what legitimate points are brought up.  Until PA's Supreme Court rules differently, everyone is ruled by the laws on the books in their entirety ...  not just the numbers.

Perhaps HB 1684 will get passed w/proper language to suit landowners today and tomorrow, but I seriously doubt a new law will be grandfathered in for leases already signed.  Our pockets aren't the bottomless pits we wish they were ... even collectively.  Good, bad, or otherwise we are a nation ruled by laws, and after the news esp. surrounding Crimea/Ukraine and in many areas of the Mid-East , I for one am grateful.

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