Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Billy Park Whyde on April 15, 2014 at 9:09am

If it was a Horizontal well fracking takes days, sometimes even weeks usually. If they were drilling they may have temporarily drew water (from your water formation ) in abundance till it was cemented in in which case your back to normal in short order. 

Could be that if your well is cased with steel pipe as it is 20 years plus may have rusted through (the reason why new water wells are done with plastic now. 

 Just a guess only but you might contact the ODNR about it.

  My water well was sucked dry when a Clinton well was drilled near buy when they bailed the hole. (water is like electricity takes the least restrictive path. I went to the rig and they had a geologist there  by chance. I bought him here turned on the faucets and watched them go down hill quickly. He didn't think it was possible but saw it, next day they cemented 3rd day he came back and no water drop off at all. In 98 though my water well which was cased in steel over 25 years old rusted through. No fault of drilling .

Permalink Reply by c c on April 15, 2014 at 12:08pm

the rig has been gone for a while, when I drove by the next day it looked like the fracking pumps were there but lined up to leave,  could have been there for days, it was the first night I left the window open in a while. the casing is 85' of  6" plastic at my request when R&S drilled it (I'm a retired plumber) didn't want to live the steel nightmare so many others have had. in discussing it with my wife the Henceroth well which is closer did cause a little bit of issues cloudy/slight sulfur smell when they put it in but it cleared up the next day. this time it will nearly drive you out of the house, never seen this kind of issue with the sulfur and turbidity appear in under 24 hours before  in all of my service calls, usually its gradual and becomes unbearable over time. I plan on sending a camera down the hole to see if there is any damage to the screen or grouting on Friday if it does not clear up.

looking here first because I don't want to give any fuel to the anti-frackers out there, I sit in a big hole on the map so its only a matter of time before the drill me then if it is an issue I can just drill another well with the cash

Permalink Reply by ji on April 16, 2014 at 1:13am

Cc...what is the distance between your water well and newly drilled well? Since you didn't mention anything about predrill water well sampling I would assume you are beyond the 1500 feet required distance for predrill sampling. Is there any gas pressure at the well casing opening or any water turbulence noise " boiling " inside the casing?

Permalink Reply by James Foster on April 16, 2014 at 7:54am

They have been collecting water in a containment pond or containers for the fracking of this well for some time now from a surface location off Laughlin Mill Road.  Do you live anywhere near that ... just off Lindesmith you can see the fire hose type line. The fracking of the well is taking place some 3000-5000 feet underground so it seems strange that would effect a water well 300 feet deep.

Not saying it can't cause a problem but we have five well pads near us with about 2 wells each all fracked not to far from Frank Z and we have well water.  No problems.  Casing failure at that well up high near the 300 foot level while fracking could be a problem but they would not be able to build up enough pressure to frack once the casing cracked.

The sulfur rotten egg smell sounds more like a septic tank.  Is yours or a neighbors near your well.  If you report this to health department they will put dye in all the toilets nearby and see if there is a leak into any creeks or streams nearby.  If a septic tank is leaking or overflowing it could end up in the water table.  Also they can test your water for e coli, etc that you would expect to find if a septic tank had failed or needed emptied.  This basic water test is not expensive and worth it to rule out. More elaborate tests for chemicals from fracking is going to cost considerable more so I would rule out first problem first.  Do you have anything in your lease to protect your water source?  Have you knocked on your closest neighbors doors to see if anyone else has problems.

In the house I grew up in the neighbors inadequate and not properly installed tank allowed raw sewage to seep out onto the ground and when it rained it ended up in our basement which had always had a water problem but not a raw sewage problem until the neighbors septic failed.

Permalink Reply by ji on April 17, 2014 at 4:00am

http://www.publicherald.org/archives/13916/investigative-reports/en...

Secondary effects of "fracking bulb" could potentially disrupt well water miles away or whatever distance and direction the lateral goes.

Permalink Reply by Keith A Williams on April 17, 2014 at 5:44am

JI,

Sighting an anti fracking article that has absolutely no scientific basis is not going to solve this man's problem. The article lists sources that do not even exist. Facts that do not even relate. That site is funded by the Park foundation, as anti as it gets.

For CC, 300 foot wells in this area more than likely go through at least 1 vein of coal. You may have had a sidewall cave in on your well. The camera idea is a great one. We also had a much colder winter this year than since the 70's. Frost line was much deeper. The timing is close to when the frost left the ground.

Also this time of year produces excess water flow from sources that normally do not produce water. One of the normally unproductive layers may have been flushed out and into your well. Hopefully all will clear up shortly!

If you had a sidewall cave in, I would hook a hose up out side and run the well as dry as you can a couple of times. That may flush out the stuff that fell down into the well.

Maybe also a problem with the pump. Sometimes the pumps go bad and stir the sediment at the bottom of the well around and dig into the side of the well.

Let us know what you find.

HTH

Keith

Permalink Reply by ji on April 17, 2014 at 9:05am

Fracking can't cause earthquakes either I suppose. Cave in you say. Around the time they fracked. Ummm. Only happened twice in 20 years... When wells were drilled. Read his statements again. Something caused his water to go really bad really quick. The man is a plumber who does water well service. He should recognize normal, expected, seasonal changes in his well water or pump problems. Mentioned stress bulb from fracking as a potential because it is a real geologic phenomena. Your not going to find any articles about it in EDI though. I'm not saying what the cause is, I'm just mentioning other possibilities. Much more info is obviously needed like where is water well in relationship to the lateral, water well logs, drilling, fracking logs etc. Your advice is good and appreciate that you took time to offer it to him. May be due to natural causes, maybe not.

Permalink Reply by James Foster on April 18, 2014 at 7:44am

Plate tectonics causes earthquakes ... disposal wells and fracking fluid injected deep in the ground may lubricate these sections of the plate and allow them to slip but they DO NOT cause earthquakes.  The earthquake was coming sooner or later ... small or big.  No one can predict an earthquake.  No one can predict which wells will facilitate an earthquake.  You drive a car every day and people get killed every day in car wrecks but every day you take that risk and I don't see anyone out trying to stop people from driving.  With innovation and technology come risks ... you think the caveman who invented the wheel wanted to see a school bus full of kids be involved in a crash.  Did the Asians who built railroads in America foresee trains derailing particularly ones loaded with oil which polluted the land.  Did young John Glenn or Neil Armstrong believe that one day they would watch not one but two space shuttles explode on their television screen ... they didn't even have a TV when they were kids!

Permalink Reply by ji on April 18, 2014 at 8:58am

I forwarded your response to ODNR and USGS for their review. Thank you.

Permalink Reply by James Foster on April 18, 2014 at 10:15am

Hey thanks but I am guessing they already know what causes earthquakes!

Permalink Reply by ji on April 19, 2014 at 3:37am

Somehow I just knew you guys would eventuall bring "cavemen" into your theories on fracking. Neil Armstrong was a surprise though. Rain and frost. Ground water's worst enemy. EDI would love to have you guys on thier staff.

Permalink Reply by Keith A Williams on April 19, 2014 at 5:27am

ji,

At least we would get it right. EDI is Electronic Data Interchange. EID is Energy In Depth!

Actually I would say that sidewall cave-in is a well's worst enemy.

As far as your "real geologic phenomena",

Why don't you read what a real geologist stated in front of Congress.

http://www.energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=4...

I quote from that testimony:

"It is important to note that the extremely small microseismic events occur during hydraulic fracturing operations. These microseismic events affect a very small volume of rock and release, on average, about the same amount of energy as a gallon of milk falling off a kitchen counter. The reason these events are so small is that pressurization during hydraulic fracturing affects only limited volumes of rock (typically several hundred meters in extent) and pressurization typically lasts only a few hours."

This is a real scientist with real knowledge. Not us "GUYS" and "Theories".

Also dismissing Frost as a potential problem is very far from the truth. Look up Frost Quakes or Cryoseism. It has happened in OHIO! Also read:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-frost-quakes-cryos...

Have a GREAT day!

Keith

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