Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Doug shaler on November 23, 2010 at 3:24am

Not sure where you are located, but i'm getting mine tested on monday the 29th.
We are in fox twp, sullivan county the cost is $375 for baseline tests, which include 17 different items for testing. Also they are a state certified lab.

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Permalink Reply by Brian Oram, PG on November 28, 2010 at 5:26am

The cost is highly variable, because it really depends on what parameters you have tested and not just the cost. If you want some information on testing parameter general recommendations with some cost estimates, go to
http://wilkes.edu/pages/4197.asp

Look under the database link- on Left there is a link titled testing options. Again - we do not conduct any certified testing at Wilkes University.
Also, please consider supporting the Citizen database by releasing your data to Wilkes University

Note:
1. Your baseline testing should not just cover gas issues, but include an evaluation of other surrounding land-uses or local geology which may impact the water quality.

Good Luck

Brian Oram, Professional geologist
http://www.water-research.net
http://www.bfenvironmental.com

Note_ A $ 375.00 test at one lab is not the same as a $ 700+ test at another lab. Also, I highly recommend testing for regulated VOCs(21 parameters) and not just the BTEX (4 parameters). If there is an old gas station in the area make sure to do VOCs with MTBE.

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Permalink Reply by Brian Oram, PG on November 28, 2010 at 5:30am

Regaridng the testing sites, you may want to speak to a local professional. In general, I would recommend at a minimum testing the well and spring for one set of parameters and then possibly testing the pond and stream to a lesser extent. Again this depends on surrounding land-use and existing conditions.

This is the other side of the testing program - it may be worth having you hire a professional and not just a lab to collect your sample. This way you get professional advice and a professional recommendation that includes surrounding land-use, soils, geologist, and an understanding of the drilling or other environmental practices.

Thanks

Brian Oram, Professional Geologist

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Brian Morton on December 5, 2010 at 6:55am

Thanks Brian,
Very good detailed information. I'll do my homework now, but at least now I have a text book. I like the proffesional direction you suggested. Clean water is everything and I just want to "know" what I have one way or the other. Regards, Thomas

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Brian Morton on December 5, 2010 at 7:11am

Hey Brian,
I forgot something. I was at the Chesapeake Meeting on Thursday night for Elkland Twp. After the meeting I asked their represenitive about the well testing. She stated that they are only required to test water up to 1000' of a well (I believe that's right) However, Chesapeake tests out to 4000'. They test the water to Penn. State recomendations and establish a base line for your water. They use a 3rd party Lab. She stated that if for any reason the information would be needed in a court of law it would stand up. She did not quite understand why we would have our water tested ourselves at our expence when Chesapeake is going to do it anyway. She said to contact her and she'll get us on the water testing schedual before it is really needed. They will share the test results with us also. So, I guess my question is, am I nieve in beleving that this would be good enough. Had I got a better price on my gas lease I would just do it. But money is tight. Your opinions are appreciated. Regards, Thomas

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Permalink Reply by Brian Oram, PG on December 5, 2010 at 9:13am

I like they are going out 4000 feet. I do not believe that you need your own test, but this is really up to you. What I have suggested to others - is let the gas company test and if anything retest for parameters they indicate is marginal or over a limit. Also, I would hope they would go beyond the Penn State Recommendations.

Please consider suggesting to your neighbors to send their data or the data they get from the gas company down to Wilkes University for the Citizen Database

http://www.wilkes.edu/water

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Brian Morton on December 5, 2010 at 9:30am

OK, thanks. I'll double check on the testing data they are collecting and yes, I'll encourage neighbors to send information to Wilkes.

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Permalink Reply by Brian Oram, PG on December 5, 2010 at 1:33pm

Thanks
I would appreciate the assistance. On the Wilkes Website there are some recommendations on testing parameters. I do not want to upload the pdf again, I already upload at this site.

The database website is
http://wilkes.edu/pages/4197.asp

If you would like to schedule a meeting with a group
http://wilkes.edu/pages/4200.asp

Note: Submission of results includes an evaluation of the results by Brian Oram, PG

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Permalink Reply by Alan Coogan on December 5, 2010 at 12:12pm

Brian Oram opened up the "pandora's box". The question is "what is one testing and for what purpose?

In general, a domestic (well) supply should be tested to see if it meets health requirements.
That's usually enough, unless one is near a source (or along the pathway) of a contaminant of suffient concentration to affect a person in contact with it , e.g. by drinking, washing. That is the point of his gas station and VOV comment.

If a release from a shale gas well were to occur, into the drinking water aquifer and your well
1. it were gas (methane for example) a prior test of water would not mean much when it had been tested for inorganics in water

2. it were brine and a lot of its minor constituents, the most dramatic change in the domestic water would be a jump in chloride ion concentrattion together with higher calcium, magnesium and dissolved solids. more than;250 ppm chloride exceeds SDWA recommendations. THEN, if present, one can get all those expensive ions checked. So get a few inexpensive ones +health tests if you want to pre-test, just before the drilling.

3. if it were a liquid petroleum release, those inorganic tests won't help much, and the oil itsself should be distinctive.

4. if it were fresh water frac flow back, an inorganic chemical match might be
possible, maybe, but where would one get the standards for comparison?

If the person who provides the test results can't explain what they mean in the hydrogeologic setting of your water supply, then to what end? at what expense?
There's a lot of confusion about these things.

good luck,

Alan Coogan, geologist

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Permalink Reply by Brian Oram, PG on December 5, 2010 at 1:37pm

If you read my postings - my general train of through is:
a. Your baseline testing needs to take into consider existing conditions and surrounding land-use;
b. Proposed changes or activities;
c. Nature of the hydrogeological system - ie. shallow well or spring complex or a deeper groundwater discharge;
d. Well and system construciton
etc

In many cases - going just to a certified lab may get you only a 'package' with not real throught to your situation. The certified lab should be working with professional to try to get the client expert advice. Just my thoughts.

Brian Oram, PG, Soil Scientist, PASEO

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Brian Morton on December 6, 2010 at 8:25am

Thanks for the imput and, Yes it is all very confusing especally to a layman. Hey, you want to know about wood and furnituremaking, I'm your man. I'm just concerened of getting test done then someone coming back and saying You didn't test for this??? What I realllllly want is some one to hand me a paper and say "Test for This" Period. Not sure I need to know why. Now here's a question. So you get the water tested. How or what tells me I need to have the water tested again after a well is drilled in the area. Do I "just do it again"? How long do I wait? How far away a well? How do I know if the well is contaminated to warrent a new test. How offten should the water well be tested after a gas well is sunk in in production? If a deer pee's 500 yards up stream does that change the results? As you can see this opens a big can of possiablity worms. I'm done, my head is spinning:)

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Permalink Reply by Brian Oram, PG on December 6, 2010 at 9:41am

Give me a call - 570-335-1947

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