Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on August 25, 2015 at 7:41am

I don't have his name but he had a map and said that within a week or so someone will come to take a look and discuss  possible obstacles such as our water supply and such.

Bill

Ladd

Permalink Reply by Mike Herceg on August 26, 2015 at 8:51am

Another thing about pipelines, I found out, if the property is in Clean and Green, The pipeline is excluded from the Tax Penelties unlike a pad site.The property where the pipeline covers will not be converted out of Clean and Green.

Permalink Reply by Mike Herceg on August 25, 2015 at 7:22am

http://gomarcellusshale.com/profiles/blogs/pipeline-easement-and-ri...  < Start with this link

 

They will start off at $5/ft, I have seen up as $14/ft - $18

Try and put timelimit to when they start and finish.

Additional info:

Also Have a attorney review your Pipeline lease agreement.

Most will let you keep the logs, just need location off the pipeline to stock pile. The tops and stumps can be ground, chipped and spread.

HEP Tioga Gathering, L.L.C. - Is one of the companies in the area

Also you can request access to cross pipeline to be established to get heavy equip across

Permalink Reply by 0ym9x5ag7ury2 on August 25, 2015 at 4:49pm

In Ohio, a landman traveled all the neighborhoods saying he was with a pipeline company and needed his Right Of Way contract signed with no negotiations and no details of where the Right Of Way would be.

The company just needed my signature in their opinion so I handed them a few paragraphs of information that was missing, like number of pipes, size, content, a survey map of the location of the right of way, and more.

We never heard from that company again. Those who signed will someday learn they signed away their ROW rights when they signed the contract.

The company is named after that red bird that OH & WV uses as their state bird. Companies don't like it when I use their names even if they were attempting to do something dishonest.

Don't forget to run that ROW contract past a lawyer otherwise you'll miss out when the real pipeline company shows up. Remember, you aren't dealing with the Church Choir when the topic is related to Oil & Gas.

Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on August 26, 2015 at 12:46am

Thank you both Mike Herceg and Ron hale.  I will be especially cautious when dealing with these people. He had a map that was showing the both well locations. I asked for a copy of his map. He said he would give me one. But he also said in effect, "I will have to delete the locations of these two wells. But I could put a little "flyspeck" pencil mark where they are located". I thought this was a little strange.

He said that he was from the Pittsburg area. Another thing he said was that someone from the pipeline company would come to our place in about a week. But probably would not walk around the area. This raised a caution flag for me! And maybe even a red flag too!

Bill L.

Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on August 26, 2015 at 6:23am

My son who was there said the company the young man represented was in fact "Cardinal".    Does anyone have any comments to make about this outfit? Are they a lease and then re lease to other outfits for a profit? I am a bit leery about this. Bill L.

Permalink Reply by 0ym9x5ag7ury2 on August 27, 2015 at 12:33pm

William Allen,

     Yea that fits the Red Bird description to a tail feather.

I'm thinking if you have electronic county records you can look to see how many ROW contracts have been entered on deeds in your county by these "birds".

Back in 2012 one of the ladies who comments on this website stated she was concerned about her county in PA and Columbiana County Ohio due to all the ROW contracts this group was getting signatures on. All the neighbors I dealt with that didn't sign due to discussions of what a real ROW must have in it, have never heard from that Pipeline Company since. We assumed they were just another assault on the landowners by another phase of the Oil & Gas play.

Maybe someone will speak up with specifics about them,  but in my opinion handing a landowner a boiler plate/cookie cutter ROW and telling them this is it sign it, we don't negotiate, then accepting a signature from an unsuspecting landowner might be described as UNETHICAL for starters. 

My condolences to those that signed their lands Right Of Way over to this group for little to no compensation. You can only hope a pipeline never crosses your property in which case your loss is minimal.

Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on August 31, 2015 at 1:12am

Well Josie, most landowners  are not lawyers. And long time family owners often have little reason for a lot of legal work. And I suppose there are speculators and other folks who have "inside information", who are willing to spend much time to visit with an unsuspecting landowner just to acquire control of their hard earned property.

I do not have much use for such people!!!!

Bill L

Permalink Reply by Frank Walker on August 31, 2015 at 2:41am

"You can only hope a pipeline never crosses your property in which case your loss is minimal."

Bit of a disagreement with you there, Ron my friend, of a respectful nature I assure you.  But loss can manifest itself in any number of ways.  When time comes to sell a property, something which happens to many landowners, or their families, sooner or later, merely the threat of a pipeline will likely reduce the size of offers.  It is not necessary for the pipeline itself actually to exist.  

Permalink Reply by John Capwell on August 26, 2015 at 7:13am

This is a copy of a previous post I made and it is made with the benefit of hindsight.

Several comments for the discussion: the Right Of Way (ROW) is precisely that. This pipeline is in the ground for perpetuity. The land is yours as are the taxes and the liabilities. So when negotiating this remember to have your attorney include clauses which assign responsibility for any problems to the leasing company. Make sure that any problems caused to propery, yours or neighbors, outside of the pipeline is their issue to resolve. Legal expenses and investigations that you incure to resolve an issue as the result of their negligence are to be reimbursed by them (no limits).

If timber is to be harvested, have your own appraisal performed and compare it to their estimate. Negotiate this price. Specify how the harvest is to be done and state clearly how the logs are to be stacked. Then sell the logs yourself. If they complain, point out that trees are a farm crop and that within the ROW that you, or your children, will never be able to harvest trees again. If they further complain, then state that they will have to pay under timber theft provision of Pennsylvania Law. Don't tell them that this statute requires a threefold price increase over you valuation. Also require, in you addendums, that all stumps be pulled and ground into mulch and that the mulch be spread within a specific time period. Include an addendum that establishes a financial penalty for non performance.

Specify what ROW plantings need to be made for purposes of reclamation of the site. Many of us prefer a planting which will support specific wildlife. Do not accept their standard seed mix. Specify Crown Vetch free seed mix.

Specify that the company who owns the pipeline is responsible for maintaining the plantings for as LONG as the pipe is in the ground.

During construction, any fuel leakage or lubricant leakage is their cleanup responsibility and that clean must be to DEP, EPA and OSHA standards.

Specify that when the pipeline is no longer used for transporting gas that it may not be converted to other uses. The tendency is to convert these to fiber optic line carriers and the landowner receives no compensation for access. If at any time they refuse an addendum, jack the per foot price up or walk away. Both are effective negotiating strategies.

State in your addendums that the only access that employees have is to the pipeline ROW and not to any adjacent ground. Further, since this is still your land, any time access to the pipeline ROW is needed the company must contact you 48 hours prior to their entry on your land.

And this may be the most important point. This pipeline will divide your land and it does have the potential for limiting your access to both sides of your land. The pipeline company may say that to protect their pipe that any truck or vehicle in excess of 8 tons may not cross the pipe. If you log or use heavy machinery this is a problem. Specify, even if you do not currently use heavy machinery, that specific sites on the pipeline be constructed in such a manner to support 80,000 lbs (road legal logging trucks). Do not be convinced that mats can be rented to lay over the pipeline so that you move your machinery over the pipe. Do not be convinced that they will take care of it for you, they won't. Remind them whose land this is.

If after all of your work, they will not agree, do not sign since you are giving this away forever. The money they wave in your face is taxable and a one time payment for a lifetime with a pipeline.

Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on August 27, 2015 at 1:08am

The entire picture of leasing and the and gas and oil industry as well as other industries look to me as if landowners are being "herded", for lack of a better word, into a situation where they are providing or being forced to turn over property.  Property that their forebears busted their backs to clear and make a living from and eventually leave to their offspring.

More and more gas drilling rigs are sprouting up. Lots of  abandon oil pumping rigs can be found not far from where I live. Just over the state line north, there are pumps operated by electric motors. There are electric lines with the wires that have fallen to the ground or just hanging in mid air. Other places you can find several oil well pumps that still have long rods leading back to one place. I guess there are called pump Jacks .

All of these places have left a great inconvenience for farmers or the owners of these properties. Eyesores? yes!   Dangerous? Yes! Taxes still have to be paid and the areas are no longer available or safe to use.

Does it really make sense to turn over your land for such purposes?

Bill L.

Permalink Reply by John Capwell on August 27, 2015 at 1:27am

Yoour final question is the correct question. Understand that in the case of a gathering line "eminent domain" does not apply. So you can say no. If you are part of a unit and they need to find another route for their pipeline, that may be the best choice. ROW agreements are a very sharp double edged sword.

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