Leasing "ROW"

About seventy years ago or maybe a little more when the electric lines were put in and my Grandparents home was wired up for lights A conversation took place. I was too small to remember what was actually said. But years later the topic of that subject came up once again.

A statement was put forth by someone. They said, "Promise the landowners ANYTHING, BUT GET THAT LEASE!"

They were talking about setting the poles for the electric line that was about to be brought into the area.

These folks had heard rumors both pro and con about the labor saving that electricity would save them. In fact I recall vividly my father driving the 100 miles from Geneva, New York, where he worked for the telephone company, each weekend. I often came with him. He came to install the wiring in two houses, one house was my Grandfather's and the other house was the house I am sitting in right now.

I also recall vividly wondering why my Grandfather and my Aunt Allie did not turn on the lights......Our Geneva home had electric lights, an electric cook stove and other electrical appliances.  My Aunt Allie would say, "Tuttle, Are the oil lamps filled for the evening?" And he would fill them and light them.

But we are talking about "ROW's" for gas and oil wells and pipelines. Electric poles take very little room. And unless they have to be routed thru a very valuable stand of timber there is little to be concerned about. The landowner was not restricted in working his land between the poles.

Gas and oil wells and pipelines are a different story.  A much bigger area is required. Often several acres in fact. Weeks and months of heavy trucks and work crews and other assorted machinery are dragged onto your property. Your land will never be the same again! 

These gas and oil well and pipeline people are blind to anything except to fatten their bank accounts. They cannot see the blood, sweat, tears and sacrifices made by these long time landowners. And they care even less about the damages they often cause.

To add insult to injury, the land owner still has to pay the taxes on the land he is no longer allowed to use anymore as he wishes, plus any taxes levied on payments made for leasing and royalty.

Comments please.

Bill L.

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0ym9x5ag7ury2Permalink Reply by 0ym9x5ag7ury2 on October 15, 2015 at 2:45am

Dealing for a ROW with the electric company is done with a company that has some ethics, not many but some, and won't try to tie up every acre of your property in case another electric company wants a ROW so they can make the profit not you.

O&G companies have proven over the past 100 plus years that they have no ethics and aren't afraid to take what is yours in the form of well products or your ROW for pipelines so they will benefit in the future not the landowner.

There are laws that protect each state, but when you read them you'll see that they didn't include the landowners under the laws written to protect state property and oil & gas affairs. I have to wonder why the laws weren't written to protect those who have paid for local governments since the 1800's through Real Estate Taxes.

Looks like O&G money has always found it's way into the right hands in order to perpetuate this O&G theft on the landowners of the US.

Let's get this fixed before the next wave of domestic production starts. Get out and vote, write letters, make this another National Discussion like we hear about for all other issues in our Great Nation, or relive the theft our ancestors saw but didn't talk about.

Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on October 15, 2015 at 12:38pm

Lets hear about the pipeline leasing from everyone who had an experience concerning a pipeline crossing their land. I am talking about families who have lived, worked and brought up their offspring on the land handed down to them for many generations.  What are your feelings? What great memories do you have of your childhood on lands that are no longer owned by your forbears because they were either legally stolen by greedy bankers or other money grubbers?

Bill L. 

Permalink Reply by Thomas Lilli on October 15, 2015 at 11:59pm
There Will be a free seminar by an O&G attorney at the Deane Performing Arts Center in Wellsboro on 21 October from 6PM to 8PM. He will be speaking about Leases and ROW's.
Permalink Reply by Michael Allen on October 19, 2015 at 3:21am

Most "Lease Hounds" do not make good Right-of-Way Agents negotiating for pipeline rights of way. Having been in the right of way acquisition business for 30+ years, I have seen it all, on both sides of the ditch. It boils down to whether or not the pipeline company has eminent domain and meet the definition of a "public utility", or, if they have a federal certificate from FERC. Under those conditions, eminent domain means that they can take your property for a pipeline easement. Does that mean you should just roll over? No, you should have a good attorney working on both easement clauses that protect you and also to negotiate the price.

Regardless, if the company has condemnation power, insist on them sending you a letter stating that they are classified as a public utility and have the right of eminent domain. You will need thar for your CPA and your tax records.

If the pipeline company does NOT have eminent domain power, then you can either give them the door and say, "go around me", or negotiate a generous price and either a "lease" for a particular amount of time or a "licence" to cross your property. Either is better than a permanent easement ,and, you can also negotiate an annual payment vs a one time check.

Permalink Reply by Janice L. Hancharick on October 19, 2015 at 5:50am

Excellent response Mr. Allen.  Too often the term eminent domain is used as a scare tactic whether relevant or not.  Even when E. D. is true, negotiations can exist because companies are more sensitive to their public image than they used to be.

Personally I've long believed that annual payment is better than a one-time check for 2 reasons: taxes go up and cost-of-living goes up ... all part of inflation.  I can imagine companies wouldn't want to re-figure payments yearly but every 2-5 yrs. seems reasonable.  That would be fair to all as numbers that go up can also go down.

Permanent loss of solid money-makers for landowners in rural regions must receive strong financial considerations.

Permalink Reply by Thomas Lilli on October 19, 2015 at 5:56am
I'd advise everyone in Tioga county go to the seminar.
Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on October 20, 2015 at 1:49pm

We are slowly hammering out our ROW Lease agreement with Cardinal thru our Lawyer.  I do have to give credit to the pipeline representative on his agreeing to make a few changes.  One of the most important to me is moving the path to next to the line fence. That way no land will cut into un useable scraps. Access over a very steep pitch thru a creek bed was another concern of mine. Access will be made over on another person's property close to mine but the pitch is much less steep. Not sure if the property owner between our two properties will be pleased or not. He has a small lot next to ours and on the other side is a space where this access road can cross the, "not so steep" creek bank and thence back to the pipeline ROW. There should be plenty of space for pipe, and machinery to be staged from.

Well we will see.

Bill L.

Permalink Reply by Dutch Buckeye on October 27, 2015 at 9:50am

I assume that this ROW with Cardinal is for a Gathering Line. What were you offered per foot for the pipeline? I received an offer from Cardinal yesterday for $20.00 per foot. The agreement did not have any additional compensation for running a temporary water line across the ROW. Has anyone else signed a ROW with Cardinal? If so, for how much?

Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on October 21, 2015 at 1:39pm

One of my concerns was the usable and salable  timber and or wood. I burn firewood to heat my house, water and in the cold weather to cook on. A deal was cut that should benefit me on this lease.

Aside from this, since I no longer can get my own firewood one reason being that I no longer have a tractor.  And also because my bones have walked this earth for better then 80 years now! Maybe if I can suggest to the ROW coordinator to stack my saleable timber and wood I can use for fuel closer to my house.  I don't expect that they would block my wood and split it into furnace and stove sized, ready to burn firewood. That would be asking too much of them.

 Many land owners do burn wood from their own property. Every since I was sixteen Wood was the main fuel for heating. I started with a two man cross cut five foot long saw.. And steel wedges with a sledge hammer and double bitted axe to split it with. Then came chain saws and a buzz saw powered by a single cylinder hit and miss engine  that was later replaced by a ford tractor.

Hard work, you say?  Damn right it was.

But there were great rewards too. Watching a flying squirrel move her babies one by one to another tree after I had cut just below her nest.  And then watching a raccoon stagger away from his home that exploded into hundreds of pieces around him when it hit the ground. I still laugh 50 years later as I recall that raccoon  wobbling away as if had partying all night.

Hoping that my grandson will have a chance to experience some of these things and learn to appreciate what his ancestors left him.

Bill L.

Permalink Reply by william Allen. Ladd on November 3, 2015 at 11:10am

I am at a loss as to what is going on between my lawyer and the pipeline leasing outfit, (Cardinal).

 My lawyer has not made any contact with me by way of Email or Snail mail or even telephone.  He emailed me asking if there was any questions and I did mention one. How did Pipeline planned to get their equipment to the top of the hill? There was a very steep pitch into a creek bed and then it levels off for a short distance and then climbs another not quite so steep and covered with trees that needed to be removed.

I also spoke to the Pipeline representative about this. He brought me a map showing me just how they would proceed. They had an access road that will enter near my own private driveway and then follow a path that the loggers made right through the middle of a former pasture and hay field.

I suggested that it would be better to follow the edge of the hayfield to their pipeline instead of cutting my hayfield in two thereby destroying any chance of establishing any building lots in the future.

The only word I receive was that an access road would have to be under a different lease. This was about three weeks ago. Both pipeline people and my lawyer are aware of my concern.

My pipeline contact has called every few days to see how things are progressing.

I have no answers to give him. I would hope my lawyer would at least let me know if any progress is being made and how much he is charging for his work thus far.

Any thoughts on this situation?

Bill L.

Permalink Reply by Jason on November 4, 2015 at 2:15am

Here is just a little info on who you are dealing with.  My father and I negotiated with a landman on a ROW.  After several meetings, we came to a deal of $40 for the first pipeline and $40 for any additional pipelines on 50' permanent right of way and we were pleased.  When he had the final copy to be signed, it stated $40 for the first pipeline and then $10 per any additional pipelines.  We called him out on it and he said that it must have been a typo!!  My advice would be to let an attorney deal with them.

Permalink Reply by Thomas Lilli on November 4, 2015 at 2:50am
Please note Tioga County, this man negotiated at least $80/foot. When gas companies need ROW's they will pay far more than the pittance $15/foot that is being signed for right now in our area.

And follow the advice of getting an attorney. It's money well spent.

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