Any more ALOV updates

We have property in Trumbull County and have been told by ALOV two more weeks but they have said that 3 times.  I am concerned about the length of time it is taking versus what they said it would take.  Has anyone else heard that they are promoting somewhere around $4000 or $4500 an acre and around 18% in royalties.  I have also heard people in the area  say that those per acre prices will start coming down as the companies expand into Trumbull County.  We have had interest at $1500 to $2000 per acre and 15% royalties and the ALOV proposal has more but I am not sure if it will really come true.

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Permalink Reply by Russell D. Banks on November 5, 2011 at 5:13pm

Thanks Craig. I need to stop allowing myself to get caught up in no win conversations. I feel fortunate to be in the Trumbull group also.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Permalink Reply by dr j on November 6, 2011 at 5:04am

Poor Adam etc al.  

 

Folks stop reading "stuff" into a situation that does not exist.  ALOV was literally started out of several meetings in a local garage when this whole "thing" started.   Columbiana COunty was targeted right off the bat at a pace that would make your head spin.  People were confused and amazed and started networking with their neighbors pretty quickly.  ALOV was "born" out of those efforts and in all honesty grew at a rate which no one could comprehend.   Try spending some of your own time volunteering for this type of thing and see how much time it takes.  Eventually these volunteers were spending every waking minute other than their own occupations on this venture.  Bob Rea was able at the time to become the "front man".  Subsequently he now has spent more time than anyone in this area dealing with these issues.  It literally has/had become a more than full time volunteer position for him.   In the beginning donations were taken to cover copying, phone bills,  supplies etc.   It quickly became apparent that this time commitment and financial commitment could not go on forever.   From the work Bob has done in the last year, the knowledge he has gained, he has formed Buckeye Minerals.  I believe his goal is to consult landowners as they undertake and make decisions on the leasing of their land.   If you see that as some sort of fraud- paying people for their expertise- I hope you are not using lawyers or medical professionals or any other type of consultant.  

 

I have found over the years the only types of people that resent paying others for their valuable knowledge are those that have none of their own.  

 

I wish Bob the very best and admire the diligence and hard work he has displayed.  I guarantee you he never intended to be "on" this path.  Life takes you on amazing journey when you follow your passion.  For him protecting the land which has been in his family for generations was the start, and it lead to something much bigger than could be foreseen.    In fact, situations like this are exactly the type of thing from which innovation is born.  Seeing a need and filling it.   That is exactly what has happened here.   

If Adam is a landman- he should be finding ways to work with people like Bob Rea because those are the folks who have the landowner's ear ( hint hint- he is "one of them") and honestly in my experiences over the last year, more than a few landowners are now much more savvy about this than the large majority of landman.    We are no longer a bunch of dumb farmers ( the dumb ones were weeded out long ago).  

Permalink Reply by Adam Thomas on November 6, 2011 at 2:23pm

I would like to point out that in my previous post I said "If Bob actually did volunteer his time to help people out then I commend him for that."

I do still feel that the explanations of the transition from "non-proffit" to "proffit" are, in my opinion, questionable.  I personally feel that since the Trumbull county group was not the first group that the organization put together that it should not have been a big surprise as to the amount of work involved.  I believe it was their third or fourth.  I am very sympathetic and understanding with the HUGE time that is involved with an oil and gas leasing project.  It does require an enormous amout of time and energy. 

However, I personally feel that if it is too big of a demand for someone, they should allow someone else to take over.  I am and have been involved in a number of non-proffit organizations where I donated my time or expertise.  There often comes a point in time when things may arise or change that require more time or money that you a person can commit without reimbursement. I believe, that if and when that happens, then the individual ethically has a choice to make.  They should inform the other members so that they can prepare to have someone take over their position or lessen their work load. The other option is for them to go to the organization explain their position and allow the organization(members) to make a decision as to wether they can be compensated them monetarily for their time.  If the individual is of vital importance and worth the members money, then they will generally understand and agree to pay them for their time.  It would be no different than paying an attorney or other proffesional to assist with a project. 

I personally do not feel that it is ethical and the best interest of the organization for an individual to begin a business and use their position in that organization to promote their own personal business.  If they were going to go on their own, they should COMPLETELY walk away from the organization otherwise it creates a "conflict of interest".

I feel that if there was no lease for ALOV to send to people from ALOV then they should have simply been honest with people and told them so, NOT start sending  people a lease promoting the person business of one of the leaders that was so unselfishly "donating" their time.  When someone called ALOV, there should have NEVER been anybody that received a lease from another company other than ALOV. 

I am not and have not alledged fraud by anyone, I am simply saying that there is enough hidden from the members of ALOV that with a new business formed from one of the leaders and the way ALOV was used to promote their business, it just looks suspicious from the outside and obviously I am not the ony one that thought so because I am not the first person to say it on here.

This is my personal opinion of the subject.  I simply wanted to clarify so that everyone understood where my opinion was coming from.  I do not intend to directly target anyone in particular.  I just wanted to voice my opinion the same as everyone else does and make sure everyone is aware of how their leaders handle business.  I am sure there are many good things that they do as well. If you are okay with that, then that is up to you.  Ultimately, the decision to lease or not to lease and with what company is entirely up to you.  I hope everyone makes the best deal possible and they are completely satisfied with whoever they choose to go with.  The choices we are making may affect our families and properties for generations so choose wisely.

I felt compelled to come to this site because I personally felt that people were being mislead to believe that if they hold out longer, they will be guarenteed more money and a better deal.  This simply is not true.  There is risk involved in making a decision either way and I felt that the risk associated with holding out and waiting was not fully being disclosed or spoke of.  If either of the test wells that are permitted in Ashtabula or Geauga county are not good wells then the interest of all the o/g companies will be gone in those areas and holding out can possibly cost you money.  I truly hope they turn out great but just like the whittaker well in Monroe county, there is no guarantee!

Permalink Reply by dr j on November 7, 2011 at 3:50am

Unfortunately Adam, I think you are going to see ulterior motives to the situation even when none exist.  Whatever.  I am pretty sure the whole Buckeye Minerals development has been pretty transparent to those who are paying attention.  If people choose to read something else into it, so be it.  There are certainly much bigger fish to fry in this whole endeavor.

Bob Rea will still be living here when the landmen, the oil companies and the attorneys are long gone.  I am pretty sure his motives reflect so.

I also want to add- while I agree in premise with your last paragraph, we did "hold out" albeit through no choice on our own part and yes we are receiving significantly more money.  We do not live in Trumbull county.  On the other hand, we would have been happy at the same level our neighbors signed.   No point in bullying people.  Present the facts, not an embellished trumped up version, and  let people decide.  Perhaps they are rolling the dice by waiting, but it's their gamble.  Move on.  

 

Permalink Reply by Tanya Gabriele on November 7, 2011 at 5:05am
How can a group of landowners ever believe their are getting the best deal when these shale beds remain under-explored?
Permalink Reply by dr j on November 7, 2011 at 5:32am

Tanya, 

What are you asking?  How can a shale bed be an known quantity until it's explored?  How can it be explored until the land is available?   In the perfect world I guess there would be perfect knowledge about what is "down there" before a drill bit ever touches the ground.  That is not the reality of the situation.  And although the amount of money seems infinite, it is not.   Even if it was a known quantity any company that is responsible to it's shareholders is going to try to make the possible deal while acquiring the acreage.   

 

As you may have seen CHK recently announced a joint venture in which the lease acreage was given a consideration of 15K/acre.  So as a landowner does that mean I should hold out for 14,500?   Of course not- as it will cost millions to realize that potential for the producer.   Could my land be worth more than that, of course- it's dependent on geology, gas/oil prices the political climate and many other things.   By the time this is a "known quantity" - this phase of the play will be over.  As a landowner you can certainly hold out until there is more established knowledge, that is certainly your option but you also have to be prepared for the that knowledge to render your acreage unattractive or even less attractive than a new up and coming play.  I think our fellow landowners on shale plays across the country can attest to the changed climate that ensued as companies left to focus on the Utica potential.   No matter how we feel we are largely at the mercy of the large companies in this deal. 

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on November 23, 2011 at 4:34am

Smart landowner groups won't work with the likes of Adam Thomas. Smart landowner groups can easily go higher up the corporate food chain than a lowly landman due to the acreage they control. They have no need for the likes of him. This in turn reduces the pool of uninformed landowners for Mr. Thomas to make his living from and causes him to bash those landowner groups here every chance he gets. The more people organize and realize they don't need to deal with people like him, the louder and more shrill his attacks and whining will become. He has said he would leave gomarcellusshale.com a number of times, but like most landmen, he will lie to get his job done, and keeps coming back.

Permalink Reply by psychosid on December 1, 2011 at 3:49am

There are other "Landmen" on here that lurk and they will bash ANY lease or deal for a company that they don't work for.  It should go without saying that if you have a lot of property (I'll define it as enough to place a well pad on), take the actual lease to YOUR LAWYER FOR REVIEW BEFORE SIGNING.  There has to be some kind of TRUST between the Lessor and Lessee.  No amount of money is worth losing your land if you actually live and plan on retiring on it. 

Permalink Reply by psychosid on December 1, 2011 at 3:29am

I believe Mr. Rea started off with ALOV to help his immediate landowners in his area from getting ripped off by oil and gas landmen.  Now, this whole thing has spiraled so far out of control, some with knowledge about leases and this industry, are asking if ALOV would be interested in helping finalize lease deals in other counties in Eastern Ohio.  I know I only speak for myself but I don't feel like Mr. Rea is committing fraud by starting a "for-profit" business using his group's original lease that was created with the help of lawyers and to protect the landowner.  ALOV put this lease on their website many months ago and some are presenting it as their own lease to groups to make themselves look like they know what is going on and to show landowners that they are trying to protect them.  Every landowner has the right to make a phone call to the local drillers/producers and make their own deal. 

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on December 1, 2011 at 8:57am

Also, the DRAFT lease that ALOV has on their website is not their final lease. It was a starting point and has evolved over time. Rea is very up front about the fact that his Buckeye Minerals Development Company is charging 2-3/4% for their services which seems reasonable when one considers the leases he has brought to his clients. People who have used his services were not forced to sign - they did so by choice.

Permalink Reply by Adam Thomas on November 10, 2011 at 4:41am

Dr. J,

I am not in any way wanting to argue with you.

I would only like to point two things out that seem to be missed by your statement.

"Bob Rea will still be living here when the landmen, the oil companies and the attorneys are long gone.  I am pretty sure his motives reflect so."

First of all, Since Bob started his own company, he is now a landman the same as anyone else that is involved in a proffit based business.

 

Second of all, he does not live in Ashtabula, Trumbull or any northern County nor does he own acreage here or pay taxes here.  When he is back at his farm in COLUMBIANA County, I will still be here as I do own property here and work in these counties every day.  So when the "landmen, the oil companies and the attorneys" are gone, Bob will be as well.  Correct me if I am wrong, but, he is no longer helping his "neighbors" out, he is attemping to make a proffit off of the people in northern counties, the same as every other leasing company, oil company, or attorney is.  Unfortunately, without the leasing companies, the oil companies would have their way with ALL of the landowners and the landowners would not benefit from this the way they will by being informed and educated on the subject.

I do mention the risk associated with this alot on here because there is a constant flow of people that are uninformed on how the development of a formation works.  They keep insisting that time is the only thing that is needed to recieve more money and as you mentioned, because it is unexplored, they do not know where is going to be good.  There are alot of people that thought that was true and they lost out on any money because oil companies found out that a particular area was not good and people lost money they could have gotten by leasing.  I try my best to explain both possibilities so that people can make informed decisions rather than listening to people that simply do not realize that offers are made based on the avilable knowledge in an area.  As information is gained, offers go up, down, or away according to that information.  You seem to understand that but many people on here do not.

Permalink Reply by Tom Frey on November 10, 2011 at 5:04am

Adam, Is wishgaurd doing any leasing in trumbull county?

 

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