What's going on in your area?? any info???

Just curious...

     I am in Liberty township and a few months ago got an offer to buy my royalties for 1500 to 1800 per acre, but they would do a more in-depth look if I was serious which "mite change the numbers" slightly....even tho I am not drilled or receiving any royalties ..talked to a landsman rite b4 I contacted them and he advised caution as there will be "significant" activity in my area in the "near future"....how about it, anybody else get an offer or hear anything or see any activity here in Tioga Co. ?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jack Young on November 30, 2013 at 5:11am

And it was East's owners who made the money you mention.

Permalink Reply by Jack Young on November 30, 2013 at 5:27am

Ann - that's just the unitization clause you're quoting from the Phillips lease. Typically the industry didn't unitize anything shallower than the Onondaga at that time, so unitization clauses didn't cover other depths. The lease itself still covers all depths and formations, however. They would need to modify the lease to allow for unitization in the Marcellus, however - they could drill and produce it, but just couldn't unitize without this change.

Permalink Reply by Jack Young on November 30, 2013 at 8:08am

Traditionally nobody would even think about unitizing anything above the Onondaga in northern PA, as shallow vertical wells don't drain enough acreage to require unitization. Until the industry realized that you could go horizontal profitably on shallow wells they had no reason to think that unitization above the Onondaga would ever be needed. Before people began to think of shales as a drilling target, the next thing of value above the Onondago would be various Upper Devonian sandstones perhaps 3,000 feet closer to the surface which would never need to be unitized. Any well drilled to depths above the Onondaga could be drilled right up to a property line without any setback, and you didn't need to share the proceeds with the adjoining landowner even if you pretty much knew that almost half of the oil or gas was coming from under their land. So you didn't need multiple leases to drill the wells you wanted - just leases on the actual drillsites. You will never find a mention of unitizing the Marcellus in any pre-2006 lease, and even now, specific mentions of or limitations to unitizing particular formations would be quite unusual.

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on December 1, 2013 at 5:45am

Not exactly.  While PA is (primarily) a rule of capture state, in the 1970s some operators did form conventional gas well units.  During the 1970s fuel shortage, there was exploration in unlikely places ... like NE TC.  Mobil Oil leased land in my area and seismic testing was conducted.  (There is a record of the leases in Landex, but the PA DEP Permits List has no record of the well that was drilled.)

Mobil (or their agent) did describe a "unit".  Reluctant landowners were told that the well wouldn't be drilled unless/until all the land in the unit was leased.  They claimed it was a state requirement.  Which of course wasn't true; they did it to protect themselves against any other operator from tapping into the pool,  Karma prevailed; the well was a dry hole.  

Permalink Reply by Jack Young on December 1, 2013 at 6:36am

What exactly are you suggesting wasn't accurate in my comment?

Of course you can form shallow drilling units if your lease allows, but there's something odd about this story. You say in the first paragraph that the DEP has no record of the well ever being drilled, yet in the second paragraph you say it was a dry hole. As there aren't any shallow drilling targets in NE Tioga County, forming a unit to drill there wouldn't be unexpected. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on December 1, 2013 at 8:21am

Jack wrote:

What exactly are you suggesting wasn't accurate in my comment?

For starters, you wrote:

Traditionally nobody would even think about unitizing anything above the Onondaga in northern PA, ...

Jack also wrote:

You say in the first paragraph that the DEP has no record of the well ever being drilled ...

Strawman.  What I wrote was:

"... the PA DEP Permits List has no record of the well that was drilled."

The PA DEP may or may not have the well in their internal records.

I know the well was drilled (and that it was a dry hole) because it was "common knowledge" in the community.  I was here soon after the rig was removed and no "Christmas tree" or digging for a pipeline, just a small impound of drilling waste. 

-------------

Jack:  You do show a tendency to question accounts by local residents.  So, it's fair to ask what you consider your qualifications to be - to comment on Tioga County in particular.  Of course, since this group doesn't have a moderator, you  have as much right to comment as anyone, subject to the GMS TOS.  But not the authority to discourage others from commenting because of their - in your opinion - insufficient knowledge. 

Permalink Reply by Jack Young on December 1, 2013 at 8:32am

Your reply was as I expected - you just wanted to take a shot at me. That's not the point of a forum like this, but it is unfortunately one of the less appealing elements of human nature. As I've said before, I comment when I have actual knowledge to report, and I admit when I make a mistake. You might try to do the same occasionally instead of attempting to score points you haven't earned. 

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on December 1, 2013 at 9:33am

Just the opposite, Jack.  I held off posting because it was you.  I've posted before about the 1970s wells, rule of capture, and units.  While I certainly don't think you did it intentionally, you contradicted my previous comments.  I decided it was an important enough topic to restate the facts.

Certainly I've made mistakes in GMS ... and retracted them.  The most embarrassing was Shale vs Shell in a TV ad. 

As for "points", is there some contest I'm not aware of?  Is there a prize?

Permalink Reply by Jack Young on December 1, 2013 at 11:13am

How about this - I won't comment on anything you say in the future, and you can believe whatever you want to believe. The point of the forum is to allow accurate information to displace inaccurate information for the benefit of everyone involved. It's not a contest between people. 

Look at some of the posts in this thread over the past couple days: Apparently the gas companies all wanted to drill in Tioga County for the Trenton Black-River (which is just like swiss cheese) 7 or 8 years ago, and they discovered the Marcellus in the process. Or else they knew about the Marcellus all along and cheated the landowners out of a fortune by not telling them about it when they took the leases. But somehow they forgot to mention it in their leases, so had to go back to ask for it a second time. Then they took their leases (which were worth a fortune) and lost billions when they tried to drill them in the Marcellus. So they switched over to the Utica, which is thousands of feet away from the Trenton Black-River but somehow manages to be its source rock.And so on.... 

And how can we be sure about these claims? It seems that most of this information came from landmen and middlemen, who are all crooks except for the ones being quoted.

If that's the level of discussion you want, who am I to complain?

 

Permalink Reply by Thomas Lilli on December 1, 2013 at 11:37am
Jack,

I sense a bit of hostility and sarcasm at my expense and don't really appreciate being ridiculed. I was trying to answer your question about "where these things get started".

I never held out to be an expert in geology, the gas industry or prognosticating. I was simply trying to rely to the group what I was told.

Before there was forums like this, land owners were preyed upon and taken advantage of because there was little information about anything like there is today.

So, thanks for your insights and experience but, please don't ridicule me because I relayed what I was told to you by some one who was held out to be "in the know".
Permalink Reply by Jack Young on December 1, 2013 at 12:25pm

My comment was a synthesis of the various statements made over the past couple days, and was intended to show how deep the problems with this thread are running. I wasn't aiming at any one person.

Nobody likes being told they were wrong, and if you would rather not risk that, then I just won't try to help in the future.

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on December 1, 2013 at 12:42pm

Jack, you're offering something I didn't ask for, or want, ... to not comment on my future posts.  So, Thank you, but No thanks.  I do agree to disagree on "The point of the forum", as you stated it.

Consider that you have had "the last word".

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