Ingraffea speaking in Butler PA Nov. 21

Dr. Tony Ingraffea to Talk About Fracking at Butler Community College

Renowned authority on shale gas drilling, Dr. Tony Ingraffea of Cornell University, has been invited by Marcellus Outreach Butler to talk about the perils of fracking at:

7:00 pm, Thursday, November 21
Succop Theater
Butler Community College
107 College Drive, Butler, PA 16002

Free to the public. 

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Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on November 21, 2013 at 7:28am

http://energyindepth.org/marcellus/science-and-ingraffeas-natural-g...   

Dr Ingraffea has been severely discredited by universities around the country including MIT, Carnegie Mellon, and his own Cornell. 

Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on November 22, 2013 at 10:01am

I was out there last night and I brought up the CMU study, which was funded by the Sierra Club.  He did not have a compelling answer.  Also brought up the UT study that just came out.  Much of what Tony says is accurate.  But much of it is not.  Much of it is willfully slanted to lead the listener to a preconceived conclusion.   His presentation last night looked at every well that had any sort of casing related violation and jumped to the conclusion that those wells were all leaking.   Not even close to being true.  He also failed to take into account that some areas, such as NEPA, are extremely prone to methane migration whereas areas like Western PA have an extremely stable subsurface geology with a miniscule chance of methane migration. 

The fact is that if gas wells were causing methane migration at the rate that he has implied, there would be tens of thousands of cases of methane migration across the state.  But there isn't. 

There's no need to run computer models and fancy algorithms.   There have been 375,000 gas wells drilled in PA.   There are also in excess of a million water wells, all of which were drilled with ZERO regulation and oversight.  If Ingraffea's numbers are accurate, you couldn't strike a match anywhere in the Commonwealth without blowing the entire countryside to smithereens.  He seems like a nice guy, he showed a cute video of his grandson.  But some of his numbers are way off. 

Permalink Reply by Bill F. on December 27, 2013 at 4:47am

Same old Mike Knapp ....along with all the wells drilled PA you forgot to mention anything about all the people that have had problems. Oh that's right not really important to you right Mikey !! 

Permalink Reply by Rodney T Hytonen on December 21, 2013 at 5:58am

He is also one of only NINE Ph.D's in Fracking Mechanics IN THE WORLD, and in his role as one of the designing developers of the process, HIGHLY DECORATED with awards from the industry itself. 

Check into how many of those Universities and colleges receive money from the industry.

Then notice that he is nonetheless strangely head of his department at Cornell.

And while you're researching try to find ONE study, by or in support of the industry, that has been PEER REVIEWED - as Ingraffea's uniquely has.

Ask an engineer or other accredited scientist what that means.

Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on December 21, 2013 at 12:56pm

I'm aware of his area of expertise.  And it would be very pertinent, if Dr. Ingraffea were discussing  fracking.  But he isn't.  His study comparing coal GHG emissions vs. nat gas GHG emissions has absolutely nothing to do with rock fracture mechanics.  Neither does whether or not improperly constructed gas well casing strings are causing methane migration.  In fact, at this lecture he made a very big deal about how he had not used the word "fracking" one single time in his two hour long lecture.

As far as the "the university took money from the gas companies" conspiracy theory, I actually asked Dr. Ingraffea what he thought of that.  He has absolutely no problem with it, and and emphatically defended the practice.  No need to take my word for it, you can see for yourself, let it play a few minutes after the part about funding and you can see him state that what he's talking about has absolutely nothing to do with fracking

http://youtu.be/CpomAGWgeGs?t=2h14m3s

Although its a moot point...the Carnegie-Mellon study I reference was paid for by the Sierra Club, which isn't exactly a shill for shale. And CMU is one of the most respected research institutions in the world.  They're not out panhandling for money. 

As far as engineers, our office is full of them.  They've helped us drill over 1,000 wells in Western PA in the last 6 years, none of which caused any methane migration. 

Permalink Reply by Rodney T Hytonen on December 21, 2013 at 3:26pm

LIke many of the larger groups, the Sierra Club is known lately to have been co-opted by accepting industry money. The significant evidence when a group or government branch or agency reaches that point is when they reverse position and begin to ASSUME the actual ALLOWANCE of "fracking"

(and I hope unlike corrupt judges and officials, government branches, and agencies like the EPA, and propaganda "report" writers who purposely pretend to misconstrue tis ABBREVIATION, we all know that term is used these days to stand for the entire process of finding, tooling up and drilling for, and producing shale gas and getting it to market.)

Like the governors, congress, White House, EPA and DEPs; the Sierra Club's recent acquiescence to "helping to find safer ways to do" what CANNOT (or rather has proven it WILL not) be done safely -and should not be done at all- screams corruption in the purest and most obvious sense.

 

Irreversibly poisoning and Injecting HUGE quantities of water permanently into the ground ANYWHERE, for any reason, is simply A VERY BAD IDEA.

Making an "exception" for certain profiteers to get away with what is otherwise patently ILLEGAL, on daily proven public health grounds and with scientifically obvious good reason, is nothing short of criminal corruption.

 

And it is hurting, NONCONSENTUALLY industrializing, and killing towns, residences, private property, society, the planet, and eventually all water and thus all future life, for the great profit of an irresponsible and criminal few.

It is unspeakable and unconscionable, and WILL be stopped - and all responsible eventually punished.

Permalink Reply by Dan on December 21, 2013 at 3:44pm
Gee, And here I thought pumpin all that there water in the ground ment we could throw more tires on the fire and not have to worry about the ocean risen an gettin us. But seein u puttin it that way?
Permalink Reply by George Brown on December 27, 2013 at 2:35am

Rodney with that last reply, you have shown yourself to be a Chicken Little.  Fracking is not going to ruin the planet.  It will have some harmful side-effects, but everything man does has side-effects that cause varying degrees of harm. All things considered, fracking to extract natural gas is one of the least environmentally intrusive ways to get the energy we need.

Permalink Reply by Bill F. on December 27, 2013 at 4:53am

Your outlook seems to be quite naive or at least very limited .Not all NG wells produce issues ,but there are plenty that have ,This comes from my actual exoerience here in Bradford county ,Pa.Once you do have a problem it can take years to get some resolve.

Permalink Reply by George Brown on December 27, 2013 at 5:24am

My outlook is far from naive and not at all limited.  I'm an engineer that knows nothing is perfect. How much environmental damage has been done by coal mining?  What about logging and burning wood? How about oil exploration? Or all the gasoline that leaks from underground storage tanks at the thousands of gas stations everywhere? Or the radiation from nuclear plants? Or the chemicals from Lithium Ion batteries disposed of improperly? Or all the dog feces that people pick up in plastic bags and then throw in the trash, meaning the waste ends up untreated in higher concentrations in landfills? Or all the birds hacked to death by windmills?  I could go on and on.

Look, I have installed a solar power system at my hunting cabin and I am very happy with it but it simply cannot replace fossil fuels for things like heating and cooking.  The physics just don't work.  The amount of energy required to light an LED bulb isn't much, hence my solar energy system is more than capable of providing interior lighting but by no means can it heat the cabin or even boil water for coffee and soup. And even solar, if it could generate enough electricity, is not perfect.  What about the lead acid storage batteries?  They need to be replaced and hopefully recycled but what if they are dumped illegally in a wet land?

Nothing is perfect.  People die in auto accidents, prescription drugs are getting into the water supply and Asian carp are infesting our waterways. In spite of all this calamity we continue to live longer lives with a higher standard of living! We need to apply good engineering methodologies and try to manage everything we do to the best of our abilities but we can't go back to the stone age.  Even if we could, who in the hell would want to do so! Natural gas exploration and extraction isn't perfect but relatively speaking it isn't that bad.  My problem with fractivists is they treat their opposition like it is a religion rather than using logic, just like the global warming folks and many others who pursue a cause and refuse to compromise.

Permalink Reply by Rodney T Hytonen on December 27, 2013 at 5:42am

I am a retired degreed engineer who once worked as a contractor at HQNASA.

NONE of those things should have been done.

And the oppressive and irresponsible behavior and harm impacting the history, environment and people of West Virginia alone, suggests why.

They are lessons as colossal mistakes, not blueprints for future destruction.

Permalink Reply by Rodney T Hytonen on December 27, 2013 at 5:51am

As you seem to realize, there are enough ways to get energy that we don't have to resort to sacrificing whole populations and the future of life on earth (water.) But it will never happen if we allow it to be for private profit, which only cares to withhold its products As a fellow engineer I find your skills in root cause analysis need work..

You love drilling so much - do it in your OWN yard CONSENTUALLY -try geothermal.

And cage those windmills. They're PLENTY for Scotland, Denmark and Germany. And it gets pretty cold there.

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