Compressed Natural Gas (CNG)

I live in Iowa. A local company is using CNG in their large vehicle fleet. They are paying $.89 per gallon and getting 3.77 miles per gallon for CNG. Their cost for diesel is $3.08 and are getting 3.83 mpg for diesel. Hey, any Fed's out there listening? Probably not, so the rest of us need to put some pressure on our Congressmen and Senators to develop a national energy plan that makes sense rather than that being pushed by the ill-informed in Washington DC.

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Permalink Reply by Chartist on March 24, 2012 at 4:08am

$3.08 per gallon of diesel is fantasy land...And I couldn't get 3.83 mpg unless I left my car idling around the clock.  Some of your numbers seem strange.....Plus, the start-up costs for CNG are high, very high.  And, the range for CNG vehicles is bad, only suitable for fleet vehicles in densely populated cities.

Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on March 24, 2012 at 4:32am

You couldn't be more wrong Chartist. 

The bi-fuel CNG powered heavy duty pickups that you can order now from GM, Dodge, and Ford all have a range of about 650 miles, and run on both gasoline and CNG.   CNG tank running low?  Flip a switch on the dash and switch to gasoline. Even the natural gas Civic, which is solely CNG, has a 250mi range.  Not great for long trips, but easily an option for even long range commuters. 

Permalink Reply by Chartist on March 24, 2012 at 4:38am

the operative word in your reply was bi-fuel.....pure CNG vehicles have poor mileage....Fleet setups cost millions of dollars.  A landfill in my area set up CNG for their garbage trucks:  $3 million. 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on March 24, 2012 at 5:47am

I don't think most of the folks on here own fleets of garbage trucks. 

Permalink Reply by Al Cramblett on March 24, 2012 at 4:40am

The data I provided was published in the local newspaper. I'm sure the information is auditable. It's disappointing that you discount the information without conducting further discovery. Your response is but another example why those of us on the other side of this issue have a challenge in educating our congressmen and senators.

Permalink Reply by Finnbear on March 27, 2012 at 4:13pm

The article says "large vehicle fleet" which implies medium duty trucks, buses, etc. - LARGE commercial vehicles - not cars. It probably should have been written "fleet of large vehicles" to more clearly convey what the writer intended but this one got past the editors. Single digit mileage is very common with commercial trucks and buses. There is a bus fleet in my area that uses CNG to fuel most of their buses and they run far cheaper and cleaner on CNG and are well worth the initial investment.

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on March 24, 2012 at 6:42am

The low cost for the diesel fuel may be because of long term contracts signed before recent price spikes. Thats why the futures market is so important.  And by buying in huge volume.

I don't know why the mileage is so low but it may be garbage trucks or buses.  These have terrible mileage because of their constant stopping and starting.

I think that the cost of conversions will come down considerably in the next year or two as more companies get into it and the parts are more mass manufactured. There are also new, cheaper tanks under testing and tanks are most expensive component. And maybe the EPA will relax some of the regs that add to the costs.

Permalink Reply by Al Cramblett on March 24, 2012 at 7:44am

Jim, you're spot on! They are city buses and are probably getting a break for bulk purchase. The CNG infrastructure needs to be built so that the CNG is available to fuel the vehicles as needed by the ordinary driver. Of course you are correct that the cost of vehicles will also decrease when mass production occurs. My point is that we need to accelerate the schedule for making this happen.

Permalink Reply by Chartist on March 24, 2012 at 7:12am

Pure CNG will likely only be done for fleet vehicles for the time being.  And I don't believe anyone can buy diesel for under $3.25 when it's $4.25 now.  And unless you're talking about a bulldozer, I don't believe there are many diesel vehicles getting less than 4 mpg.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on March 24, 2012 at 12:01pm

The biggest reason for the price break would be an annual contract that set the price long before it skyrocketed.

Permalink Reply by George Brown on March 24, 2012 at 8:06am

CNG vehicles are coming and it will be a fantastic thing for all of us!  The bi-fuels will come first, but eventually there will be enough CNG fueling infrastructure out there to go strictly CNG. My 2004 Explorer is getting a little long in the tooth but I'll keep it running another two years until the market is saturated with bi-fuel and/or CNG vehicles. I only regret not having written a CNG fueling station into my lease with Shell :-)

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on March 24, 2012 at 12:00pm

George; that would be interesting to know if anyone had that written into a lease. With these wells, they don't give free gas so it wouldn't hurt them other than the installation cost.

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