Drilling Using NO WATER !!!

Why are we fighting the wrong battle? Instead of Fighting to Allow Hydrofracing using WATER, we could be pooling our resources to REQUIRE Hydrofracing to USE "Liquified Petroleum" ..

http://ww.gasfrac.com, a Toronto based firm, developed a technology 4 years ago to use essentially "Propane"  as the FRACING fluid..

1. NO Water exposure

2. NO Pollution

3. doubles production on all wells

4. NO cleanup after

5. Half the ware and tear on the roads

6. over 300 Wells currently in production out in the midwest

7. you undercut any arguement from environmental groups

 

Sadly, almost no one is talking about this

JM

 

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Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on January 11, 2011 at 7:27am

Jean,

 

It is not up in the air as to whether hydrofracturing is "safe".   It is safe! Safe being in quotations because nothing in life is completely safe.  People drown in their bathtubs or get struck by lightning, but we don't consider baths or playing golf to be "unsafe".     Incidents are VERY VERY FEW, and when those incidents occur they are immediately recognizable and very easy to fix.  There have been thousands of MS wells drilled now, and there is only one high profile case of well contamination out in Dimock, and that was methane migration that had nothing to do with fracing.   With the right regulations, it's as safe or safer than just about any other industrial activity one could imagine. 

 

I assume that you are a landowner, correct?   What makes you think that you are going to push multi-billion dollar gas companies into using the frac technique that YOU prefer?   If it was "better, less risky, more productive, less controversial" as you (and they guy at the propane-fracing company you talked to) say, then it would be in widespread use.   It's not like hydro-fracturing is a 100 year old technology and a new technology is coming in trying to teach an old dog new tricks and people are resisting because they are set in their ways.  I know of several companies that have done propane fracs, and all of them are back to using water.  

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 11, 2011 at 12:24pm

every thing must start somewhere, and I am not alone, we have a coalition now of 30,000 acres, and I am presenting this option to another coalition of 120000 acrers in the county nearby..

It makes no sense to not evaluate new processes and possibilites, and in a state(NY) that is paranoid over WATER, can potentially solve the issue and make everyone happy,including the GAS companies..

Why fight when you don't have too?

Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on January 11, 2011 at 7:31am

Brian,

 

What am I, chopped liver?   haha  ;)

 

-Mike Knapp

President

Knapp Acquisitions & Production

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 11, 2011 at 7:38am

As I mentioned , I spoke to several (4) companies previously, and they are very clear in their adoption of this technology.. The major issue, is what to do with the existing equipment? training the Drllling Companies(subs) on how to use the technology? and of course the licensing costs..

Even though the costs can be easily justified with increased production, reduced road work, nearly no cleanup costs, , reduced insurance premiums, and nearly 100% pollution free, the costs are still higher per well..

As many who work for Drilling Companies willadmit, change does not come easily to this industry.. Even Hydrofracing itself took several decades itself to be accepted ;-)

the only differance today, is that if we (land owners) insist on one technology vs the other, I am fairly sure the acceptance rate will be much quicker and higher..

but in NYS, if we continue down this WATER process, we could be looking at a decade or more of resistance and moratorium, so why persue a route of confrontation, when one exists with no resistance for an incramental cost?

 

Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on January 11, 2011 at 8:12am

Jean,

 

You're all over the place here buddy...

 

What are these 4 companies you spoke to out west? 

 

What prompted you to contact 4 random companies operating thousands of miles from us?

 

Drilling companies DO NOT frac.  Fracing companies (aka oil/gas field service companies) do the fracing. Licensing costs?  

 

You keep saying that the costs can be justified with increased production.  What are you basing these claims of extra production off of?  Are these claims independently verified by impartial third parties? 

 

hydrofracturing has been going on since the 1940's.  The concept in and of itself is longstanding, it's application to tight shale formations is what is fairly new.  

 

Again, propane fracing is not something completely new.   It's been tested out and for the most part abandoned here in the Marcellus.   I understand that you're looking for a way around the problems you're facing up there in New York, but I'm pretty sure this ain't it.  

 

For right now, hydro is king.

 

 



 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 11, 2011 at 9:02am

no one is arguing Hydrofracing.. just what product(s) you use to do the fracing ;-)

I spoke with GASTEM, and NORSK up here and GASFRAC corp themselves and they put me in touch with 2 of their clients, which I cannot mention yet. And it is not PROPANE, but "LIQUIFIED Petoleum" the chemistry I am told is similar but not Identical..  but you put nothing into the well that is not already there... which elliminates confrontation..

and as I said, there are over 300+ wells presenlt in production and orders exceeding double that this year..

I would seriously investigate closer, if I were you..

this reminds me of th Time Andrew Carnegie basically spent his fortune to build a new Steel plant only to visit Europe and see that a new Process call Bessemer was cheaper and better. Upon coming hiome he promptly destroyed and rebuilt his brand new plant because long term it was cheaper and better

 

Technolgy changes everything on a Dime sometimes, I believe and all indication are, that this is one of those Technologies for this industry...

and yes, I assumed you knew teh differance between drilling nad FRACing, so I elected not to mention it ;-)

Permalink Reply by James R. Daley, PMP on January 11, 2011 at 11:48am
Jean:  As others here have mentioned, hydraulic fracturing (stimulation) has been around since the late 1940's and has been used on over 1 million wells (yes - 1 million).  Early stimulation prior to tight shales development was done with low volumes, 10's of thousands of gallons, vs. the high volume stimulation being done with tight shales.  This industry has been very quick to adopt new technology to either solve problems (hydraulic fracturing is not a problem - is proven), or improve production/economic returns.  If propane stimulation proves itself capable of improving production/economic returns, it will be adopted quickly.  Otherwise it will be used only where it makes sense, perhaps in arid areas lacking water for hydraulic fracturing.
Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 11, 2011 at 12:13pm

James,

  Liquified Petroleum usage has been in use only 3-4 years as a working process. And in those  years over 300 wells are now in production (outproducing the old way) . As an adoption rate of new technology, this is astronomical, even when compared to Hydrofracing itself.. 

PA only drilled some 200 wells last year? 

My point over and over again, is very simple. IF I DON"T NEED WATER,  WHY USE IT ???

IF USING "LIQUIFIED PETROLEUM" accomplishes the same thing, and carries little or NO RISK or CLEANUP, then it has my VOTE and the very fact that 300+ wells are today in production, and those companies intend on expanding usage, instead of returning to using WATER, this begs the question, why are you adament of it not working, when there is CLEAR evidence that it does?

I at least make an effort to speak directly to the companies and spokes people, and don't rely on heresay...

And as a land owner, my intention is to bring this to every landowners attention at least as an option worthy of discussion..

Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on January 11, 2011 at 2:18pm

Jean,

 

I just got off the phone with a guy at Tappyfrac.   They have a new proprietary formula where they use Tapioca pudding to frac tight shale plays.  Not here in the Marcellus, but in the deep forests of Madeupistan,  He gave me a list of  references, but I can't tell you their names, but I talked to them and they said that the Tappyfrac quadrupled production!   Forget that "petrofrac" technology, that is yesterday's news!!!

 

 


Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 11, 2011 at 2:30pm
Time will tell, and insulting behavior is the last refuge of losers...
Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on January 12, 2011 at 4:15am
Just trying to keep it light, Jean.


FYI, there were several wells drilled in Indiana county that were propane fraced by one of the larger companies. They were very expensive, did not produce nearly as good as offsetting wells and the gas was too wet to feed directly into pipelines. The operator was very disappointed.


I have heard many other stories of propane fracing in the Marcellus, all of them have been very negative. This is from the mouths of the people that drill the wells. real world, first hand. If propane fracing worked, I would be all for it. You're right that it would take one more variable out of the equation. However, I have seen it used, and it produced poor results. Plain and simple.
0l1a6laz7smpfPermalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on January 11, 2011 at 3:00pm

Tapioca pudding???   is that why they call themselves 'Tappyfrac'?

now I have heard about all that I can comprehend about fracking with that...guess if they were running fracking material thru the pipelines away from the site it wouldn't be so bad with knowing it is only Tapioca pudding...ha!

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