Has anyone hired an attorney to verify that you royalties are what thery should be ?
We are supposed to be fracked in August and expect royalties sometime in the next year or so. I have every intention of hiring a law firm or an attorney to audit each royalty check for accuracy according to the lease terms as I fully expect that companies will try to take deductions they are no entitled to and various other shenanigans.
Has anyone out there actually done this, and if so what would be some good advice to give to others ?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by rmc on
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I have a firm on retainer that will be reviewing my royalty checks that will probably start coming late this year.
Really best advice I could give anyone is read you're lease then reread it again and again until you understand very term in the document.
How one proceds will really depend on how the lease is written.
I have I beleive two years to file for a audit of production then if they are off more then ten percent they pay for the audit and also pay interest on the money due.
The interest is better then any CD rate that I can get today so I won't be in any great hurry to file for the audit.
Plus if I could drag it into the third year of royalty payments maybe I will be able to get a better federal tax rate because the wells will obviously be producing much less in the third year.
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Permalink Reply by Charles Hurlburt on
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First off, does your lease give you the right to audit?
Not all leases do.
That doesn't mean you cannot review your monthly payment statement and ask questions; rather it has to do with how much the lessee is required to supply you with in terms of extra paperwork to show, for example, that the $123.78 they deducted for gathering shouldn't have been $ 98.65.
Second, just how big a piece of the pie do you have? If you have 500 acres of a 640 acre unit that produces 10 MMSCFPD, you can probably afford to do this, but if you have two acres of another 640 acre unit that produces 500 MSCFPD, the cost of attorneys' fees might well et up your entire royalty income.
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Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on
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I always thought the best option would be for everyone in the unit to put in 10 bucs or so for every acre they own. Do that annually and build up a pool for audits and any legal issues that may arise. If after 5-10 yrs the monies are large enough, distribute some to each landowner. After all, they are all in the same boat, share the cost and keep it lower that way. And it would probably be tax deductible until any rebate is distributed.
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Permalink Reply by rmc on
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Jim I agree with you totally.
Like the owners of the mineral acreage could form some type of coop.
Just won't work in my example.
I know all the owners in our production unit.
The government is one another property is in probate in another state gas company is another owner. A FLP owns a small interest and finally a Corpartion owns the rest.
I own a significant amount of the unit also have the right to audit but don't have the right to share that info with say neighbors with different leases.
I can show them the results but they won't be able to use it in court or binding arbitration.
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Permalink Reply by Laura on
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congratulations on your good fortune! I saw a rig up along I-70 on the right before reaching Fairview exit. Is that your unit? please post any info you find out about cost etc for an audit. Hopefully more of us will need this info in the not too distant future!
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Permalink Reply by rmc on
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No Laura I am close to Majorsville Wv but am actually in Pa
I have been told that a forensic audit from a national known company will cost somewhere in the range from 30 to 60 thousand dollars.
Don't know if that's correct or not.
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Permalink Reply by Frank Walker on
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Sounds OK. That's between $500 and $1000 each if sixty or so landowners go in together.
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Permalink Reply by Dexter Green on -
If you're having an attorney audit your royalty statement then you're throwing your money away. That's like hiring a carpenter to fix your car. Hire an accountant who handles O&G accounting to do it.
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Permalink Reply by evan on
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I have an attorney/CPA that looks at mine and it's not as easy as it seems. If you find they short you a few hundred bucks each check do you pay you person $200 an hour to FIGHT with the O/G companies. I've found they will deduct what they want to and if you don't like it you ll have to take the next step and we all know what that is. I guess what I'm saying is there comes a time where you just have to face the facts and realize there's not a whole lot you can do about it. It can tend to make your life miserable if you dwell on it every month.
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Permalink Reply by rmc on
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Sorry Dexter I probably said that wrong the firm is simply my general counsel that I have come to have a good deal of trust in over the years. Which isn't an easy thing to accomplish.
I have a CPA that handles my taxes but he can't handle a gas and oil audit.
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Permalink Reply by rmc on
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Mr Evan at some point in time it becomes a matter of principal.
I am a pretty simple person don't need large sums of money to exist.
So I really don't mind spending the money to make the oil and gas company toe the line so to say.
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Permalink Reply by Dexter Green on
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You need a CPA who audits O&G as their main practice. Seriously. This stuff is wicked complicated and using just anyone isn't advisable.
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