SO...NOW I HAVE NO MORALS?!
As I sat this morning...barely awake and sleepy eyed, I inhale my second mug of coffee. WKYC news (channel 3 in my area) is on...not really listening at this point, then I see the headline on the screen.....MONEY OR MORALS? This news segment was about the Utica shale drilling in Ohio and the decision that landowners face regarding to lease or not lease. They interviewed a gentleman who owned 10 acres and has yet decided to lease or not, due to the possible environmental concerns. It was your typical news segment on the pros and cons for a landowner, but what REALLY ticked me off was that headline! My family calls me a tree hugger...I feed every stray animal that wanders into my woods, I help the injured, I do nature photography, I donate to charities when I can. I've paid for food for strangers and I've taken the chance to intervene on certain outright immoral situations when I saw them unfold...BUT, since I HAVE leased with an oil/gas company...I have no morals?! Of course it couldn't possibly be that I have done enormous amounts of research on the pros/cons of this type of drilling, spent quite a bit of time sorting this all out in my mind and have made an informed decision?! I have great hope and faith in the overall safety of this type of drilling. Nothing like adding 'fuel' to the fire! I'm done venting.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by George Brown on
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I think there is a better chance that America's obesity problem is causing more earthquakes. Hey, if fracking can be responsible, how about too many Twinkies and Big Macs?
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Permalink Reply by Kim D on
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HA!...good one George...maybe we should get that 'rumor' in motion...let the guilt spread around a little! Yes, a little pun action.
dr j...apologies to the 'his' reference. We grew up in the burbs outside of the Cleveland area...we purchased undeveloped land here in Carroll County. Over the course of many, many weekends, my husband and I personally cleared an opening for our homestead and built our entire cabin on our own ( I AM the Stain and Varnish Queen), no contractors whatsoever. Our land is close to our heart..our dream come true. Of the few properties I have owned during my lifetime , none were a part of me...as our woods are now. This is our simple paradise with a lot of blood, sweat and tears invested. I can only imagine how attached others are to their homesteads that have been worked through generations...due to the diligence of themselves, parents, grandparents and so on. Our land is close to our heart..our dream come true. Needless to say, MUCH consideration went into this leasing, for anyone to assume this decision was based solely for monetary reasons...well, 'they don't know, Jack!' Speaking of monetary...our 90 days for receiving our lease bonus payment ends on Dec. 17th...nothing yet...and various recent attempts to contact Rex regarding this matter have been unsuccessful. If we don't hear/receive anything as of the 17th...not sure how it will play out. Maybe my morals will be redeemed!
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Permalink Reply by dr j on
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Hang in there Kim- hopefully you will be receiving a nice Christmas "gift"! No problem with the gender thing.
My grandparents were Carroll County farmers- my Mom grew up there..... they sold the farm after my grandfather died. We live in Columbiana County but Carroll County remains close to my heart... wish we would have kept that farm too.
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Permalink Reply by Kim D on
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It's 3:15 AM and I'm up with a 6 week old pup while answering this...so at this point, I still don't know anything. Rex told us of another neighbor involved in this as well and that we are HBP while in this unit. Supposedly it is quite a large unit. It was suggested that I call the Ohio Department of Natural Resources and ask for a map that identifies unit placements. Has anyone worked personally with the attorney Allen Wenger? I understand he worked with the Carroll County group leasings and their negotiations? I need to find out all of the details that many of you have asked. I was told that Rex goes back 150 years when checking titles, we purchased our property in 1999. No, we never received any royalties, never knew we were part of anything. I was given this possible scenerio...eventually some big company will come in and drill, we would not receive any bonus and we may get the usual 12-1/2 % percent royalty, of course, more than likely net.
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Permalink Reply by dr j on
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Wenger is probably a good place to start and/or he can direct you the correct direction. Once again though- don't just pay someone to "look over" the old lease, make sure they do their due diligence on your property as a whole. Was your land parceled off from a larger farm at one time? It sounds like that is perhaps that case ie your neighbor and the same original lease applies to both properties ( or more). I would recommend networking with neighbors ASAP- no point in several of you paying seperate attorneys when there is a good chance the same piece of paper applies to your land.
Had a situation here ( and this is just one of many) in which the original lease was signed in the 50's for landowner with ownership of a whole section at the time. That acreage is now divided up in many parcels, some of those landowners leased with no problems and others were rejected. It took a little leg work to determine what was going on- none of them had received royalties and eventually most if not all were leased. Every situation is different - but there are some more common scenarios.
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Permalink Reply by Kim D on
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dr j...The neighbor to our left i was told is HBP in this same unit...we will probably attempt to speak with them and see where they are at with this. Our neighbors to the right, have already received their bonus payment....I'm happy for them, they are the best neighbors. What bothers me is, we have a very narrow lane back to our property, neighbors on each side of it...then our property opens up behind their properties. Our neighbor to the front and right of us (who received the payment), said that there is an old well across the street, but it would have to go through his property first then to ours. I just don't get it. Rex told us that the units were very irregular back when...still, they would have to go through the neighbors to get to us!
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Permalink Reply by Kim D on
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I'd like to add that the company involved is EnerVest...anyone have a good, easy to access link to their wells/unit placements...not just newly formed units. We have a very slow connection and have difficulty on some sites. Also, hasn't EnerVest entered into a partnership with Chesapeake? I understand it's purely speculation at this point in time...but do any of you foresee possible future 12-1/2% royalties if we can't get out from our HBP? If that were the case to be, how would we know if this happens? Also, could our oil/gas be removed from under us without our knowledge? How would I find out if this could possibly be happening? An oil/gas attorney...I suppose we would have to shell out quite a bit financially for this type of attorney? Lastly, at initial well output numbers here in Carroll County, for 16 acres... could someone give me a possible scenerio of 12-1/2% royalties received? Our lease WAS for 20% gross...I am curious of how much of a difference we will experience...if it happens at all. Am I correct to assume that 12-1/2% is net? Will an attorney be truly worth retaining?...It seems pretty dismal from where I sit.
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Permalink Reply by dr j on
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It depends on what that old lease says Kim. Most likely it's 12 1/2 percent but you never know. I will let someone else do all the math on the royalties.
If it's Enervest, then basically it's Chesapeake. If you are surrounded by land that is now leased to Rex though, it's very likely you will get "swapped" if a unit is built around you. That old lease may require updating to include you in the unit- and that is where you can renegotiate. I don't think they will be able to leave you as "donut hole"- there are regs about how close the laterals can come to unleased land.
I will tell you this.... they are drilling or very close to drilling on land in other counties that was already HBP by Enervest. I think the way it went down is Range Resources sold all their interests in the shallow wells in Ohio to Enervest leaving them with lots of land already HBP. Made it very attractive to CHK to "join up".
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Permalink Reply by Kim D on
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I did find out that it is considered producing, royalties were paid out last year (not to this girl). The gentleman had a tough time figuring out the info he was viewing, he was very helpful..ODNR/OIL AND GAS. Supposedly the companies changed hands a few times since 1983...eventually being sold to EnerVest in April of 2010. You may be correct in your speculation of Chk/Enervest possibly having to re-negotiate, I'm assuming that's if they drill horizontally. I wonder if they have to drill horizontally for the high return results?...Has a vertical only been used to drill for the Utica? I have much to learn. I still haven't heard back from EnerVest. I need to get my hands on a copy of that lease, any suggestions? Anyone?
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Permalink Reply by Finnbear on
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Your county Recorder's office is where you'd go to get a copy of the lease. You will need all the filings related to the original lease from its inception through today. Without all the documents, you only have part of the picture.
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