To Lease or Not to Lease: Has Anyone NOT signed a lease? I'd like to hear why you didn't

My wife and I are part of a landowners group that is in the process of having their Range Resources contract reviewed by attorneys.  We only have 3.2 acres and have not decided whether we are actually going to sign a lease.  I am curious to hear from people who started to go through the process and then at some point decided against it.  I'd like to hear your reasons.  FYI - I'm not posting this so I can attack people's decisions.  I am genuinely interested in hearing from people who decided not to sign a lease.  

 

Thanks in advance!

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Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on October 9, 2011 at 1:58pm

I built passive solar homes since 1989  and I'm tellin ya, solar and wind are a scam.  I studied several of the leading types. The only way to make people buy them is to make taxpayers pay for them!  They are a huge loss for the country.  people would do five times better by super-insulating their homes and adding a few passive solar techniques.  The payback is much quicker and they don;t have the huge negative environmental issues that both wind and solar have.

Katherine, you consistently point out the shortcomings of the corporate world, which is fine. But who do you think is the largest supplier of wind and solar equipment? Yep, the corporate world. GE, Siemens, United Technologies, and hundreds of others. They do as much as they can to discredit competitive energy sources and exaggerate their claims for their own systems. And these corporations also fund any environmental groups that help push their agenda.

 

And speaking of environmental groups....they are notorious for lying and spreading propaganda. Just because someone hugs a tree doesn't mean they are honest. Look at the radiation scare they put in the spring.  Pa tested all water sources for drinking after that scare and found not one case of elevated levels. These are people that burn ski resorts and car dealerships, that ransack university research centers, that spike trees so that lumberjacks will be injured or even killed. How can you trust anything they say?

Permalink Reply by craig on October 9, 2011 at 3:08pm

Jim,

We had an underground house built in 1986 that we still live in today. The absolutely best decision the wife and I have ever made......and we are far from being green weenies/tree hugger types. I can't imagine how much we've saved over the years and we received absolutely NO gov't nothing to help us!

 

Permalink Reply by Jake Jackson on October 13, 2011 at 2:12pm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11060/1128778-455.stm

I think that anyone who believes this is a "Bridge Fule" should ask where the bridge is and where is it leading to. It's also being said it's a "game changer" what's the game and who's playing.

If this was such a great industry, why must they be de-regulated from the clean air, and clean water acts? The industry I work for (steel) has to pay millions to keep our facilities clean and as environmenataly safe as possible.

Why does the gas industry get a free pass? Because this nation is being held hostage by the oil and gas industry.  Just like the tobacco industry that kept saying "it's safe and doesn't cause cancer" look what they paid for that stack of lies. This is exactly the same.  It's no secret this gas is being exported for millions then sold back to us.  Are any of the leases offering free gas??? None of the ones I've been asked to sign. Why is that? How can they take gas from my land and not give it to me for free? Why don't I even get a discount?  When they come in life as you know it is over and it's up to you to decide if that is how you want to live. 

Because people are concerned about the environment, our air and our water does not mean we don't want jobs and the economy to get better. That's not even realistic.  If this was all good there wouldn't be any news of contamination and people getting sick.  It's people who see only the $$ signs that are the ones spreading the misleading information.  There is plenty of evidence of contamination of air, water and land that this industry brings with it.  It's not rocket science to think that you can set off charges into the earth with millions of gallons of toxic fluids and pressure and think nothing can go wrong.  The problem with this is once it's there you can't go back.  This is a major industrial decision, and if you want to live in an industrial state like we did in the 60's and 70's be my guest.  I lived through it and have been working to get it cleaned up for decades.

We've come a long way and I like it clean, fishing is good and the land is what i love.  I go to PA to fish and hunt and it's bad, there. The truck traffic alone is enough to make me not go back but the size of the drilling rigs, the sloppy pipe lines, the frack ponds and nasty smell in the air is enough to convince me not to go back.  If $$ is all you want then sign away.  Just remember once it's there you can't go back.  Once the water is contaminated it's too late.  They haven't been able to figure out how to clean the water back to safe drinking standards.  The money will be good for some but then we can't drink money and.........we can't live without water.  You make the choice, but the problem is everyone else has to live with it.  This isn't the old shallow gas wells we're used to.  I invite all of you to educate yourselves on the matter before you decide.  Take a drive to PA where drilling is taking place.  You decide if that is what you want to live with it's your decision and i respect each of you for what ever you decide.  The problem I have is this industry getting a pass from all the regulations that are there to protect us from our past mistakes.  Can we learn from the past?  Corporations are always going to show you only the good part, it is up to us to do the research to find out the negative and it's definitely there.  Not tree hugging propaganda, real science.  A warning to all of us, do we want to live in a toxic industrial state, or live with clean air water and land? If you think this industry is being regulated strong enough I don't think there would be any negative news about it.  Unfortunately this is just a few people getting richer and the rest of us stuck with the mess to clean up.

Permalink Reply by Jake Jackson on October 16, 2011 at 5:59am

There are a lot of questions this industry answering truthfully.  Just because some of us are looking for honesty does not mean we are "tree hugging, environmentalist"  We are families looking into the entire scope of the issue. What I am concerned about is not the instant profit some will gain but what is the future impact we will be leaving behind for our children and grandchildren.  There have been many studies that have shown that the water that returns "flow back frack fluid" does contaminate to the point of finding radiation in water sources.  This is added to the many toxic chemicals (many proven carcenogenic) that are also coming back and the industry has no where to put all of it or a way of treating it.

Ohio is the place PA is putting much of this highly contaminated fluid by injecting it into the ground in "injection wells" This isn't a confortable way of treating the problem in my opinion. I wish there was a way of them to be able to do this process without using all the toxic chemicals.  But then it probably wouldn't be as profitable for the industry would it?  Too many questions and not enough of the correct answers for me to make an educated decesion on wether or not this is going to be good for us in the end. TX has been doing it a lot longer and some of the reports I have read aren't convincing me that this will be good for us in Ohio.  THis is just my opinion and what I have been able to find.  I appreciate hearing what others have been able to find and look forward to hearing about it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/us/27gas.html?pagewanted=all

Permalink Reply by George Brown on October 9, 2011 at 3:39pm

Katherine, it might surprise you, but I'll bet you agree with most of the folks on this forum more than you disagree.

I think you're right about people telling us what we need and can't live without.  I don't really mind when companies spend their money to advertise in an attempt to convince me I need something.  At least I'm still free to decide whether or not to be convinced.  Governemnt, on the other hand, has the power to *force* me to do things I don't want and what's worse, they use my own money to do it!  Money that I have no choice but to give them.

I also think you're right about the radio question on the old census forms.  The Feds are aithorized by the constitution to conduct a head count every ten years, simply so they can determine how to divide up the 435 congressional seats.  They are not authorized to ask me how much money I make, what my race or religion is, how many bathrooms I have or whether or not I own firearms. Nevertheless, these questions are asked and we have to answer them under penalty of law.

Katharine I appreciate your skepticism and hope you continue to be a skeptic. I would point out that you should also be skeptical of those who claim windmills and solar cells are the answer to our problems. And I really hope you're skeptical when it comes to your federal, state and local politicians. Those crooks make Bernie Madoff look like an altar boy by comparison!

Permalink Reply by craig on October 9, 2011 at 5:25pm
George, I wholeheartedly agree with you in regards to the census BS. We told them how many adults and children lived here. However, we did not fill out those forms for the census. Yes they tried many times but we just flat out refused. They finally gave up when we told them not to come back. If there is a fine, I never received one and neither did my neighbors.
Permalink Reply by craig on October 10, 2011 at 7:44am

Katherine,

My brother has solar panels on his barn....he gets credit for all electric produced, however when the electric goes out, so does his even if the sun is shining. The extra $$'s to make the system available for his own use, when the power is off, was too much. I don't remember how much more though. He would have never bought solar, but since the gov't (read taxpayers) gave him nice tax credits, as well as green energy credits to sell later, he had them installed. Personally, i could have never afforded what he had installed, even with the credits, etc.  At the rate he is going it will take 17 yrs for the panels to pay for themselves, well to payback only what my brother has invested. And that is if they don't need serviced over that time.

Solar is still a newborne and not even close to ready for primetime.

But I agree that someday solar will find its place, wind may as well.

 

Permalink Reply by George Brown on October 10, 2011 at 10:58am
Katherine, the next time you get that campfire going and brew some campfire coffee, please invite your GoMarcellusShale.com friends over! We might not all agree, but we'll have a great time for sure.  I'll bring the mountain pie makers!
Permalink Reply by Barbara on October 10, 2011 at 10:51am
not true about wind having no impact......................electric lines in great number wind up being strung on land where people wanted none of it; and those who live close get the sound; supposed to be horrible for birds and bats, too.  i don't have this on my land, only going on stories from people i know and trust in illinois. 
Permalink Reply by George Brown on October 10, 2011 at 11:04am
All these windmills are just another failed jobs package for Don Quixote wannabes.
Permalink Reply by paleface on October 10, 2011 at 11:19am
 They require maintenance,google burning windmills.
Permalink Reply by Jake Jackson on October 16, 2011 at 5:36am
I have seen the windmills in PA and they are huge. I'm sure there are problems with them just like everything else but I haven't heard of them contaminating entire water aquifers or air with toxic chemicals like the natural gas extraction process that is going on in the same region. I believe we need more investment in any type of power that will eventually get us off of fossil fuels.  I think of the jobs that could be had manufacturing solar panels or parts for wind energy.  It may take some time for us to work out the bugs but in the long run the environmental impact would be much less for future generations.  This is the one thing missing from this process, what are we leaving for our children and grandchildren in the future.  Instant gratification is something in my opinion we all are guilty of. The gas industry is promising us lots of $$ now but not telling us the truth about what the cost of fixing some of the major problems will be that they are facing.  In PA people have been getting their water from water buffaloes for as long as 3 years now. I think it's the town of Dimock, PA where Cabbot was the cause of 14 families loosing their water. I can't even imagine not having safe drinking water coming out of my tap.  It is a problem I don't wish to have and one that many are having in PA. There is much to learn from what is going on in other states where this has been going on for a lot longer than it has here. We need to be aware of the positive and negative effects.  Many of the negative ones are very, very serious issues and it is up to us to proceed with caution when it comes to clean water and air.

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